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where's my table saw?
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by any chance are you an engineer?

They are all over the place. You just have to look. More common than flies.

In fact, in my experience engineers have more "common sense" that the vast majority of the population.

George
Common sense is not really all that common, in which case it would be un-common sense...... :blink:


BTW, more on topic, when he pushed the 1/2" wide piece of cardboard with another small piece of material, he created a concentrated force in the middle of the length ....not what would be happening during a resaw. In resawing the force is distributed over the entire height of the workpiece.... about 6'' - 10". Adequate beam strength to avoid deflection is still an issue, but wider bands, like 1" or 3/4", need greater tension to maintain the "beam" and that amount of tension may be beyond the ability of a 14" bandsaw. I stick to 1/2" wide blades on my 14" saws and use either 1/2" or 3/4" on my 18" saw.

Another issue not mentioned is the amount of set to the teeth. An aggressive set will open a wider kerf allowing the saw dust to be removed easier.

Another issue is blade speed. The faster the blade moves relative to feeding speed, the more material can be removed.

Another issue is certainly obvious in using a bandmill when ripping/resawing down the length of the log....a water lubricant is used on the larger mills.

just a few more things to mull over for the the engineering minds from a graduate student in Industrial Design..... just sayin' :blink:
 

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Wood Snob
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Julie
Thanks for the link. I love this guy. A few months back I overdosed on this guys vids. I have used a few of his ideas on my fixtures. I don't do resawing like you do but I may on a small scale. I only have a Delta 14" and know its limits.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.
 

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Wood Snob
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Something I would like to pass on about bandsaw blades. I like to tune the back edge with a file. If you round it over a bit it works better.

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.
 

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where's my table saw?
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Check out the videos at the bottom

This guy has some incredible work on very thick material...15" with very tight curves:
http://falbergsawz.com/
 

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What I would like to know is where did they find an engineer with common sense?
There are poor examples in any profession, but this just sounds like ordinary bashing. I guess this could come from someone with some kind of grudge, or from a frustrated wanna-be.

Think of the finest commercial machines you've ever experienced. Likely designed by Engineers.

Just sayin'.
 

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where's my table saw?
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think NASA

Probably a few engineers over there..... if they still exist anymore after sequestration....

After working with Designers, Engineers and Sculptors for 30 years, each performs a necessary and valuable service to get a product from the drawing board to the assembly line and a vehicle that actually goes down the road, however....

I have sometimes not so silent arguments with engine bay layouts, bolts you can't reach, etc, but just as many with heated seats that come on in the middle of summer because you wanted to lower the window and the switches were too close to one another....idiots! They should require everyone that works on a product actually have to use it, before it hits the retail market. This includes power tools as well as automobiles, but we have come a very long way in the last 20 years as far as quality and performance.
 

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Wood Snob
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common sense
n.
Sound judgment not based on specialized knowledge; native good judgment.
[Translation of Latin snsus commnis, common feelings of humanity.]

Al

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.
 

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I agree with most of the theory he discussed. However, practical application sometimes finds weak areas of theory.

For re-sawing I prefer a 1/4" blade. Less drag, less friction. Wide blades produce more friction which can cause all kinds of problems. In fact I have gone to just one type of band saw blade which for me has proven to be the best all around blade for everything I do on the band saw. I use my BS a lot re-sawing, ripping to width, cross cutting, curves, tenons etc. I hate changing blades and re-setting the guides so I buy only one type of blade 6 at a time, 1/4" 6 TPI hook tooth carbon steel. I tension the blade just a little more than the gauge indicates for the width. I run the blade until it breaks or I hit a nail or some such and then I just throw on another. These blades are also very inexpensive, $12 to $15 on the web.

It works for me, Bret
 

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There are poor examples in any profession, but this just sounds like ordinary bashing. I guess this could come from someone with some kind of grudge, or from a frustrated wanna-be.

Think of the finest commercial machines you've ever experienced. Likely designed by Engineers.

Just sayin'.
The finest machines I've used are antique so the engineers that designed them are no longer living. My biggest objection with engineers are those in the automotive industry. I've come to the conclusion they must have come from an insane asylum before engineering school. I maintain and repair everything I own including vehicles so I see first hand how everything is constructed and more often than not shake my head.
 

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Wood Snob
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Steve Neul said:
The finest machines I've used are antique so the engineers that designed them are no longer living. My biggest objection with engineers are those in the automotive industry. I've come to the conclusion they must have come from an insane asylum before engineering school. I maintain and repair everything I own including vehicles so I see first hand how everything is constructed and more often than not shake my head.
Grim and dim.

Friends don't let friends use stamped metal tools sold at clothing stores.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
BTW, more on topic, when he pushed the 1/2" wide piece of cardboard with another small piece of material, he created a concentrated force in the middle of the length ....not what would be happening during a resaw. In resawing the force is distributed over the entire height of the workpiece.... about 6'' - 10". Adequate beam strength to avoid deflection is still an issue, but wider bands, like 1" or 3/4", need greater tension to maintain the "beam" and that amount of tension may be beyond the ability of a 14" bandsaw.
Any pressure applied to the blade will cause it to deflect evenly on either side of the center of the area between the thrust bearings. That deflection may be miniscule and not detectable to the naked eye, but the maximum deflection will still be at the center between the thrust bearings. That is assuming the density of the board is consistent throughout the width. Matthias put his finger at the center of the cardboard to show an exaggerated version of the effect of applied pressure on the blade.

Rikon markets a bandsaw they say has a 14" resaw capacity. One would think they built it to handle the tension necessary for whatever is the proper blade to resaw a board that wide. So maybe you can get the tension necessary for a 1" blade from a 14" bandsaw. Matthias mentioned metal fatigue when placing a wide blade on a smaller wheel. Lenox makes a Flex Back blade that looks like it solves that problem.

The tech guy at Lenox didn't even flinch when recommending their 1" Woodmaster CT. All I told him was I had an 18" bandsaw and needed to resaw 8/4 sapele up to 9" wide. What I have is the same blade MiniMax uses when demoing their machines. I'm sure they want the best results when trying to sell their bandsaws. I've seen that blade in other manufacturer's demos. So at least one blade manufacturer and a few bandsaw manufacturers believe a 1" wide blade is the way to go when resawing wider boards.

For re-sawing I prefer a 1/4" blade. Less drag, less friction. Wide blades produce more friction which can cause all kinds of problems. In fact I have gone to just one type of band saw blade which for me has proven to be the best all around blade for everything I do on the band saw. I use my BS a lot re-sawing, ripping to width, cross cutting, curves, tenons etc. I hate changing blades and re-setting the guides so I buy only one type of blade 6 at a time, 1/4" 6 TPI hook tooth carbon steel. I tension the blade just a little more than the gauge indicates for the width. I run the blade until it breaks or I hit a nail or some such and then I just throw on another. These blades are also very inexpensive, $12 to $15 on the web.
If I remember correctly, Matthias said something about super sharp blades not being as much of a problem when resawing. So if you're looking at bandsaw blades being an expendable item, then maybe that works.

When I try to imagine what's going on inside the cut, based on what Matthias demonstrated in his video, I see a wider kerf allowing sawdust to get past the teeth and collect at the back of the blade, where there is nothing to eject the sawdust. A narrower kerf should reduce that.

I can fully understand shallow gullets loading up before they reach the bottom of the cut and, having no place to go, getting smashed in between the blade and wood. Mills have very wide blades with deep gullets that can only be achieved with less TPI.

At it's widest, there might be 6 teeth in contact with the log in the above picture. If you're resawing a 6" piece with a 4 TPI blade, you'll have 24 teeth contacting the wood. That would seem to place additional stress on the motor and the blade.

So it seems the people who do this for a living agree with Matthias. You need a wide blade with deep gullets to effectively resaw. The wider the resaw, the wider the blade and the deeper the gullet. The deeper the gullet, the less TPI.

I've gone through 6 or more Woodslicer blades. Those blades dulled so quickly I blamed everything but the blade. But in the end, the problem was always solved with a new blade. Once I set up the saw with the Woodmaster CT, I discovered what resawing is supposed to be.
 

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The New Guy
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The finest machines I've used are antique so the engineers that designed them are no longer living. My biggest objection with engineers are those in the automotive industry. I've come to the conclusion they must have come from an insane asylum before engineering school. I maintain and repair everything I own including vehicles so I see first hand how everything is constructed and more often than not shake my head.
I would like to point out that specific layouts (like where things are in an engine bay, or the location of buttons) aren't designed by engineers. That's done by designers/draftsmen. Engineers will figure out how the button works, and how much air and fuel to put into each cylinder, and when and how the flame front needs to move through the mixture to ensure maximum efficiency, and the best valve shape to increase flow around it or its sealing ability, and exactly how much torque is required on each bolt in your engine bay so that your engine doesn't explode while you're driving down the road. Engineers don't care where the switch or bolt is with relation to the body of your vehicle; they care that it does its job well wherever you put it.

Engineers get blamed for things that have nothing to do with engineering. Engineers figure out how things work, not where you put them. The improvement in quality and performance that woodnthings noticed over the last 20 years is the direct result of engineers figuring out better ways to do things. The heated seat button next to the window button is the result of a drafter thinking it would be prettier there than on the console between the front seats.

If you're just changing the meaning of the word engineer to mean anyone involved in designing anything you might use, then you should say that because that isn't what an engineer is.

Sorry, but that's one of my pet peeves. Excuse me while I get off my soapbox.
 

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I would like to point out that specific layouts (like where things are in an engine bay, or the location of buttons) aren't designed by engineers. That's done by designers/draftsmen. Engineers will figure out how the button works, and how much air and fuel to put into each cylinder, and when and how the flame front needs to move through the mixture to ensure maximum efficiency, and the best valve shape to increase flow around it or its sealing ability, and exactly how much torque is required on each bolt in your engine bay so that your engine doesn't explode while you're driving down the road. Engineers don't care where the switch or bolt is with relation to the body of your vehicle; they care that it does its job well wherever you put it.

Engineers get blamed for things that have nothing to do with engineering. Engineers figure out how things work, not where you put them. The improvement in quality and performance that woodnthings noticed over the last 20 years is the direct result of engineers figuring out better ways to do things. The heated seat button next to the window button is the result of a drafter thinking it would be prettier there than on the console between the front seats.

If you're just changing the meaning of the word engineer to mean anyone involved in designing anything you might use, then you should say that because that isn't what an engineer is.

Sorry, but that's one of my pet peeves. Excuse me while I get off my soapbox.
Well said Itchy...
 
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