Woodworking Talk banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, my name is Dona. I have sewn all my life and made many things with my mother. Now I am bored with fabric and have been transferring my skills and creativity to wood. My father has a shop and has started working in it now that he is retired. I got this idea to build a walnut 10x4 foot table that i have always wanted, with my dads help. It will be the first thing we build together. I am looking forward to all the memories.

We have it designed and are slowing working on planing the lumber. However, I still don't know how to finish it properly. Idealy, i want to use walnut oil only. A natural finish is more appealing to me than using a poly finish. I am reading so many different ideas and products to use. I Thought walnut oil would make a natural water barrier, once cured. Now I am confused as to what product to use. Does it need to be a boiled walnut oil to cure relatively quickly? As I have read some oils require UV light and 3-6 months to cure. I am wanting to eventually do walnut counter tops too, that will match the table. I have no problem with oiling the table and countertops periodically. I just neeed some guidence so the entire thing is not a science experiment.

Does anyone have experience, good or bad, with walnut oil finishes. All thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for all your time and help
 

·
where's my table saw?
Joined
·
29,437 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: Donna Paxton

·
Administrator
David
Joined
·
5,665 Posts
Welcome to the forum, Donna! Sounds like a neat project to do with your dad. I use lacquer almost exclusively but some of the guys who use the other finishes should be along soon to help you.

You can post photos of this and other projects as you go along - we like pictures! :grin:

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,722 Posts
Hi Donna, and welcome to WoodworkingTalk!

Here are a few things to think about:
* Stating the obvious: Just because the table will be built from walnut does not mean that you must use a walnut oil finish.
* Oil finishes are not as tough as poly finishes, and tabletops get a lot of hard use.
* Boiled linseed oil is not actually boiled like you boil water. "Boiled" linseed oil means that they have added chemicals to help it dry faster.

I have experience with other oil finishes, but not walnut oil. I will defer to others to write about their own experiences with it.
 

·
Dust Maker
Joined
·
136 Posts
Welcome Donna
Really excited you get to do this with your dad. As you indicated, what wonderful memories!

Check out Waterlox finishes. I was recently looking for something to put on a Vanity and considered Waterlox. Because I needed to level the top I used epoxy. Though I am not a fan of the gloss. We will probably use Waterlox on floors in a new house we hope to build. It is suppose to finish hard but also be able to be touched up like an oil. I have not used Waterlox much yet at all so I can not speak from experience. OK that was the fine print. :vs_laugh:
 

·
Former Member
Joined
·
1,512 Posts
I love Walnut Oil!!!

Hello, my name is Dona. I have sewn all my life and made many things with my mother. Now I am bored with fabric and have been transferring my skills and creativity to wood. My father has a shop and has started working in it now that he is retired. I got this idea to build a walnut 10x4 foot table that i have always wanted, with my dads help. It will be the first thing we build together. I am looking forward to all the memories.

We have it designed and are slowing working on planing the lumber. However, I still don't know how to finish it properly. Idealy, i want to use walnut oil only. A natural finish is more appealing to me than using a poly finish. I am reading so many different ideas and products to use. I Thought walnut oil would make a natural water barrier, once cured. Now I am confused as to what product to use. Does it need to be a boiled walnut oil to cure relatively quickly? As I have read some oils require UV light and 3-6 months to cure. I am wanting to eventually do walnut counter tops too, that will match the table. I have no problem with oiling the table and countertops periodically. I just neeed some guidence so the entire thing is not a science experiment.

Does anyone have experience, good or bad, with walnut oil finishes. All thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for all your time and help
Hi Donna,

Well...!!!...your table project sounds awesome...That's the size tables should be in my opinion...(biased of course on my part as I like big timber and heavy weight woodworking!)

Walnut oil is simply a splendid finish in many regards, with a luster, depth and aging patina that few other (if any?) finishes can garner...I typically have only used it on things like cutting boards, and butcher blocks per client requests, but a few chairs and tables too. My only other choice is my normal go to blend of natural traditional materials (food grade) of flax, tung, citrus oil blended with beeswax and pine rosin. Walnut oil or this are a "first choice" for me personally...

I'm also pleased to read that another Textile Artist...is also into making saw dust now!!!

After this project you could try your hand at upholstery work maybe?...I love it as I get to work with some of my favorite materials...wood, leather, wool felts and heavy cloth weaves...all in a single project. I hope to start doing more of it in the future again...In the "soup to nuts" anyone can really go all out for true custom work you may enjoy? In some projects I actually make just about everything that goes into it, from tanning the leather all the way to processing the sinew based threads and traditional wool and black coir' fibre (aka spanish moss batting)...

If I may ask, what style will your table be in? It sound big and robust enough to be a true Farm or Harvest table?

Will it be all wood joinery and what types?

Look forward to reading more and following along!!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,203 Posts
Welcome to the group. If you can sew from patterns and make your own, it's pretty much the same as reading and making plans and blueprints. Same brain skills.
You first topic is a good pick, Finishing is probably the most controversial topic on hear.
Gonna make some popcorn now and put this thread on wide screen.
Again, welcome to the group.
 

·
Generic Weeb
Joined
·
1,077 Posts
Walnut counter tops sounds pretty nice! Ten by four is a heck of a large table, what are your plans for the legs may I ask? As much I love natural finishes, for a table I'll always opt for a lacquer or poly finish just because of how much they get used. You could get a glass top for it but on a ten by four that would get pretty pricey.



-T
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for all the input

I want to thank everyone for the info. I have looked into everything posted. I suppose I need to give a little more imformation about who I am and trying to do. As i feel anything made by a person is an extension of themselves or a piece of themselves stays with that item for that items life.

More info about me...Raised on farm. I like things that are easy to clean and simple to care for, even if it takes a few extra minutes. I have 5 grown daughters, all married. 13 grandchild. So this table will seat my parents, daughters and their husbands, husband and myself. The reason I am putting so much thought into this tables finish might be egotistical but I am thinking that, just maybe, many generations down the road will still be using it. Thus, I want and easy care and maintenence finish. I have an bedroom suite that I am the 5th or 6th generation to sleep in. (Not sure about 6th bc we don't know if it was built for himself or one of his children) The finish on it (as many antiques) gives the appearence of cracking. Now my father would laugh at my next commit; but it is like the wood is mad that it was covered and not allowed to breathe. Some might say I am being "hippy dippy" about it. I want a finish that allows the wood to be itself, to expand and contract as it needs to without drying it out. I am just looking for a finish that can be maintained for generations, that does not need to be stripped and redone. Such as old butcher blocks. They are gorgeous without any type of finish.

My thoughts on why I should use some type of oil are... To allow it to "breathe" naturally, water proof, easy to reguvenate, Even if it needed sanded at some point, it wouldn't be a complete strip and refinish. I also do not like the idea of gloss for table or counters. I now have just an antique cutting board next to my stove that I have set hot stuff from stove onto and it bc the counter has scorch marks on it and the wood can take the heat. I don't intend to use the table or counter tops as chopping blocks but I didn't intend on my existing tops to be used that way either. However, after 20 years of use, there are cuts, knicks and stains that cannot be removed. Wood counter tops with an oil finish can be lightly sanded and re-oiled as needed. (Or so I think)

Info about the table... 10 x 4 foot black walnut, started with 13 foot and 5/4 thickness. Table will have an apron with cross supports, no bread boards on the ends. 4 or 5 legs, 3.5 inch square (no tapering of any kind). The reason not sure on the number of legs is because I don't want it to look like a conference table and if we do 6 legs then the middle person on the sides will be straddling a leg. My father says 4 legs will be plenty but if I don't like the way it looks with 4 legs we can easliy add a 5th in the center. He tried to talk me into a trstle table but to me the trestle is nothing but a boot scraper. I am the one that has to clean it, thus, the simple lines. the antique bed that I mentioned ealier is a pain to clean. It has a very intricate design. Although, I admire the time and craftmanship that it took to create. I do not enjoy cleaning it it. Also, I think the woods beauty can stand on its own. I want the beuty of the wood to be the complete focal point of it.

I don't expect my counter tops to be handed down from one generation to the next but someone might salvage them and build something else from them. ( House is a sectional so won't last 100 years) My vision is the counter tops and table bringing cohesion between the dining room and kitchen. I intend on building the cabinets out of pine from a big box lumber store. They will be painted white to high light the dark walnut tops.

Well, Probably more info than necessary or wanted. I hope I have included enough to give an idea of what I am looking for. My brothers say I am picky but there are certain things I know what I want without a doubt and this is one of them. Unless, there is a good reason for me not finish in some type of oil. Please correct me on anything that I am wrong on. I am just working with my own theories at this point.

Thanks again for your time and insight
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi Donna,

Well...!!!...your table project sounds awesome...That's the size tables should be in my opinion...(biased of course on my part as I like big timber and heavy weight woodworking!)

Walnut oil is simply a splendid finish in many regards, with a luster, depth and aging patina that few other (if any?) finishes can garner...I typically have only used it on things like cutting boards, and butcher blocks per client requests, but a few chairs and tables too. My only other choice is my normal go to blend of natural traditional materials (food grade) of flax, tung, citrus oil blended with beeswax and pine rosin. Walnut oil or this are a "first choice" for me personally...

I'm also pleased to read that another Textile Artist...is also into making saw dust now!!!

After this project you could try your hand at upholstery work maybe?...I love it as I get to work with some of my favorite materials...wood, leather, wool felts and heavy cloth weaves...all in a single project. I hope to start doing more of it in the future again...In the "soup to nuts" anyone can really go all out for true custom work you may enjoy? In some projects I actually make just about everything that goes into it, from tanning the leather all the way to processing the sinew based threads and traditional wool and black coir' fibre (aka spanish moss batting)...

If I may ask, what style will your table be in? It sound big and robust enough to be a true Farm or Harvest table?

Will it be all wood joinery and what types?

Look forward to reading more and following along!!!
Thanks for the reply! I have done upholstry, wedding dresses, and everything in between. Done a little leather sewing but my hands didn't like it. lol.

You mentioned you have used walnut oil... What type? Is there a certain kind that you prefer?

I have a gallon of Nature's oil, 100% Pure Walnut oil. I bought it from www.bulkapothecary.com/raw-ingredients/bulk-natural-oils/walnut-oil/. I am not sure if this is what I should use. Will it go rancid? Curing time? I feel like I know so little on the subject, that I don't know what to ask or know enough to ask an intelligent question.
 

·
where's my table saw?
Joined
·
29,437 Posts
Listen to those who have built one

I have not built one, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I have glued large planks together and planed them flat using power and hand planes. So my experience is limited to that, but the process is similar:
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/door-build-2-xs-1-4-ply-55717/


In my opinion, the processes he uses are good:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Donna Paxton

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have not built one, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I have glued large planks together and planed them flat using power and hand planes. So my experience is limited to that, but the process is similar:
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/door-build-2-xs-1-4-ply-55717/


In my opinion, the processes he uses are good:
Walnut Farmhouse Table with Breadboard Ends - YouTube
This is pretty much what I want. With the exception on the breadbroard on the ends and we will be cutting out the top off the legs to fit the apron flush with the legs (do not know the correct term) and using pocket screws to secure the apron and legs. The table top will have wooden pegs holding the boards together. My dad doesn't feel confortable with cutting the pieces to fit without screws in it. Since it will be built to his knowledge and experience, I have conceded to having metal in my table. lol.

I wish it said what oil was used in this video.
 

·
Former Member
Joined
·
1,512 Posts
Kindred Spirits...

...Thanks for the reply!
Hi Donna,

You are most welcome, and I sent you a private message as well...

...I have done upholstery, wedding dresses, and everything in between. Done a little leather sewing but my hands didn't like it. lol...
That is awesome...!!!...and your a woodworker too. That must give your husband (and family) a chuckle having a wife that has all the "old skills" under one hat!!!

I started upholstery work, weaving and tailoring my own cloths with my Mother and Grandmother very early on. I think removing these most basic of skill sets from schools has done our society a great disservice.

My last wedding dress project was a "soup to nuts" traditional Abenaki-Mi'kmaq Native American version with brain tan leather, quill work and related accouterments...Your hands may like such leather work much better than the standard fair of "bull hid" and related saddle/shoe grade work...LOL!

...You mentioned you have used walnut oil... What type? Is there a certain kind that you prefer?
I would have to say for the first few decades of my exposure to it...I could not begin to tell you the source. It was most likely from Europe (France) but I know my mother got some finish direclyt from Sam (Sam Maloof) when he was still alive. We lived in Southern California at the time and I can only remember that my mother, grandmother and Sam's family all knew each other. Sam used it (or related blends) on some of his original work.

My next batch lasted a long time, and came from a client in Greenwich Connecticut back in the 80's. That I believe was sourced in France (she was French) via her English husband. It went on a custom food prep and butcher block for her kitchen. Her Abattoir Table or "Slaughter Table" being more in the "mesa artesa" style of the Iberian peninsula (Catalina region) as she also baked breads a lot and the trough shape kept the flour (or blood) from going onto the floor. The remaining oil (3 plus gallons!!!) was gifted to me and it lasted long time..

My current source would probably be the one you selected or I would source it directly from my friend Autumn the owner of Heritage Finishes. If she couldn't get it (or get it at a reasonable price) she would tell me where to go.

... I have a gallon of Nature's oil, 100% Pure Walnut oil. I bought it from www.bulkapothecary.com/raw-ingredients/bulk-natural-oils/walnut-oil/...
I would note that your source is known for being excellent!!! I would also note that many "walnut finishes" (like most store bought finishes are!!!) adulterated with all kinds of other chemicals and petroleum products. Some "walnut oils" are more "petroleum byproduct" than actually walnut oil to the order of 70/30!!!???

... I am not sure if this is what I should use. Will it go rancid? Curing time? I feel like I know so little on the subject, that I don't know what to ask or know enough to ask an intelligent question...
No worries...I will try my best to fill in the blanks...

"Rancid" is thrown around as if most folks actually know what it is or what it relates to...You really have little to worry about in this regard...

Rancid is all about its taste and quality...nothing more. You can eat rancid oil and not much is going to happen to you other than it tastes bitter or "old," and only if you continued to eat it could it have any long term health effects. For example "rancid olive oil" goes bitter because of the other acids and lipids in it (forum member Brian T can expand on this better than me...LOL...if he is reading this) For cutting boards, for example, the Olive oil can be "cooked into" the wood ( a recent thing I learned from our forum member Brian T. and how he does it.) I know wood can be "boiled in oil" also, and these again are usually "natural oils" and not synthetic or petroleum based, yet this treatment methods with heat and oil are more for utensils, plates, boils, trays...etc. So I don't think you have much to worry about there at all. Keep the oil in a cool dry place and the lid well sealed.

Also note that rags can combust spontaneously...SO BE CAREFUL WITH THEM...Place them in a non combustible container and outside the shop when done with them or getting rid of them!!!

Oils are lipids and they are either a "non-drying oil" like Olive or Coconut or a drying oil like flax (aka linseed), tung (from the tung tree and very hard when dry) or...Walnut Oil which also is a "polymerizing oil"...aka "drying oil." I would note here that walnut oil...for recipes and consumption...only has a shelf life of 6 to 12 months as its lipid (oil) structure does degrade faster than other natural oils. For woodworking, if kept cool and not exposed to oxygen, it has never "gone bad" on me...before it was all used up!!!

The time this takes is dependent on temperature, refinement of the oil (yours is from that great source and probably "food grade" as well) and also its exposure to UV radiation which can accelerate polymerization...which would move this conversation in a realm of chemistry covering things like...cationic photo-polymerization of epoxidized natural lipids...well outside the scope of my expertise nor something "we end users" really need to get into for the most part...What it means is natural oils will dry faster than others depending on the way they are processed. Regardless however, all natural drying oils...will dry...and I like the less processed forms myself...

One finish method with warnings: Walnut oils do typically (in the pure form) take much longer to dry than other natural oils under the same conditions...but they will dry. However, if you get impatient (which some folks do) and try to place another finish over the top of them...especially a "plastic finish" like polyurethanes...you may well never really see the walnut oil ever dry because its been adulterated and keep from the oxygen it needs to dry...So be patient with it...I like 72 to 96 hours between coats and application temperature should be above 70°F. The first coat can (some would say "should be") thinned with citrus oil (my preference food grad of course and natural) or turpentine (which I have use and also like if from a good old pure form of it!!!)...Adding beeswax, citrus (or turpentine or pure ethyl alcohol (aka "moonshine"...and yes I love using it to carry oils into woods fibers with some species!) ) and walnut oil...in 1/3 ratios...is a popular blend as well (I've used it a few times) and its your first coat well rub into the grain. The warmer the better and allowed to dry fully. Then several more coats (3 minimum is my recommendation for a table) and then a finally "polished in" coat of the original 1/3 mix.

Of added pleasure in the finishing process for you Donna (only if not food allergic to nuts!!!) is getting everyone into the shop for some "oily fun"...including the little ones. I will play with younger participants in classes by making counting games like "who can count to a 1000?" or "who can rub the fastest on a team for 5 minutes?" This also is a hint to application method...which for walnut oil in the pure form...is with good old bare hands.!. and you rub it in hard...and you keep rubbing till you feel friction and heat then move to a new spot...

Surfactant tricks: this addresses a trick some old timers would do to wood (especially those of use that work in green wood) is to pour on grain alcohol and let it dry. Two to three coats (drying between coats till the alcohol is all gone) cleans the wood and seems to proved a much better finish when all is said and done...

Cleaning and maintenance (aka "feeding the finish"): One of the tricks to use with natural finishes of almost all kinds, types and forms is...feeding the finish...while you clean it. This only works with natural finishes and those with a beeswax base (as you heard/read some complain about) can be prone to a "waxy build up" but that really is a misnomer as wax does not really "stick" to itself molecular and it only means the furniture is "layering" microscopic layers of grime and dirt. That has to be gotten off...

So, for cleaning a table with a natural walnut oil finish, a simple warm dampened cloth (that means almost dry to the touch...!!!...and warm) with a little lemon juice added to the cloth is all you need to clean the surface of the table. Some will put the water and lemon juice on the cloth, let it set to soak in, and then put it in the micro wave to heat it up and dry it out...(be careful with time as it can burn!!!) The lemon juice is also 99.9% effective bacterial killing agent as well. Then, monthly a dampened cloth of walnut oil can be rubbed onto the table top. Note: this is the only way for fine furniture to garner some of the patinas we seen on vintage piece of folk furniture. They cleaned with "oil" (and other tricks...for another post...:vs_smile:) and their hands with a cloth. Another example of this form of patina can be found on floors in Japan, Korea and other parts of Asia where only bare feet are allowed in the house. The sebaceous oils build up over the centuries and create a hard durable finish with a patina that can't be found with any other method but type, friction pressure and human skin oils...This is why on some tables vintage (aka antique) tables with traditional finishes on them and not some modern "re-do" you will see a darkness to the finish around the edges of the table. That is from the sebaceous oils it the skins coming off as folks sat around the table and leaned on it with arms and elbows!!!

Let me know if I can expand on anything?
 

·
Former Member
Joined
·
1,512 Posts
Not a very good idea...sorry!!!

...and using pocket screws to secure the apron and legs. The table top will have wooden pegs holding the boards together. My dad doesn't feel confortable with cutting the pieces to fit without screws in it. Since it will be built to his knowledge and experience, I have conceded to having metal in my table. lol
I can't contest the use of metal, other than to state that its better for a builder to..."up their game"...than to bring the furniture down to their comfort levels...

As to the "screws" to hold the apron on...that is a big "no-no" as it does not allow for wood movement well enough in the way they are typically employed. If you could get a sketch here more could be understood about the intended design and build plan...???
 

·
Sawing against the Wind
Joined
·
2,383 Posts

·
Former Member
Joined
·
1,512 Posts
Just a bit more to consider...???

After reading and thinking about your other post here I felt remiss if I didn't do my normal...point by point...on your thoughts and ideas. Take value from it where you wish and discard the rest...It is your project...

...I am thinking that, just maybe, many generations down the road will still be using it...Thus, I want and easy care and maintenance finish...The finish on it (as many antiques) gives the appearance of cracking...Now my father would laugh at my next commit; but it is like the wood is mad that it was covered and not allowed to breathe... Some might say I am being "hippy dippy" about it...
First there's nothing wrong with "hippy dippy" if it works for you in your life...Be what you are!

As to "generations down the road" I can't disagree with that at all!!! It is the cornerstone of my work, my business and the styles of craft I work in from the timber frame homes I design and build all the way to furniture and clothing...I can often be found holding a mallet over 100 years old striking a chisel almost as old, and wearing several items of garment that are almost as old...SO, leaving something to your heirs that will carry you and your fathers spirit is a noble cause from my culture's perspective of things...

...I want a finish that allows the wood to be itself, to expand and contract as it needs to without drying it out. I am just looking for a finish that can be maintained for generations, that does not need to be stripped and redone. Such as old butcher blocks. They are gorgeous without any type of finish...
Some may tell you..."wood is dead"...and doesn't need to "breath." Technically they may have a point to only a very limited degree, but wood was alive, and as such responds to natural finishes much differently (I would suggest better) that any modern one. The patina of "old furniture" just can not be achieve with modern finishes.

...My thoughts on why I should use some type of oil are... To allow it to "breathe" naturally, water proof, easy to rejuvenate, Even if it needed sanded at some point, it wouldn't be a complete strip and refinish...
You got most of that correct...

Oil finish are not water proof at all...They actually (when fresh) can pull moisture out of the air and into the wood! Don't be alarmed, that's not a bad thing, especially for traditionally made furniture (more on that later.)

With the finish you have selected and the acceptance that it will be "used and marked" by the hands of time and the Souls that sit around it, your family will have an heirloom in the making when its complete...

...Wood counter tops with an oil finish can be lightly sanded and re-oiled as needed. (Or so I think)...
They can be if thick enough, or they can be left to age and show the marks of it. A good cleaning every year, and the finishing methods I described earlier and you should not need to do any "sanding" per se, other than once a generation. And, planning is probably more in the order of what they should receive in place of sanding...

...He tried to talk me into a trestle table but to me the trestle is nothing but a boot scraper...I am the one that has to clean it, thus, the simple lines...
I get the size of the table, and have built much larger...(MUCH LARGER!)...as the Amish I grew up around (and still work with) have to seat many Brothers and Sisters at gatherings. Some of the old tables joined together in concert may span 40', and single large table could be 20' long and 4' wide.

I will accept you don't care for "breadboard ends" (they evolved for a reason I would add however and why they are seen on many tables from multiple cultures) as an apron (properly fitted and joined) can accommodate the needed support and seasonal wood movement...

As for the Trestle design your father suggested...I could not agree more. They are the way large harvest and farm tables got built. If you don't care for the "boot scraper" (actually what they are called in many traditional circles...!!!...LOL) then design one without it, or get help to do so...

Now this brings me to the build...You have though a lot about this, and have a very substantial burden for this table to support...not only in bodies around it, but the time its meant to last! Building this with modern approaches like screws and liter weight design elements is not going to stand up over the course of time. That's not an opinion but a direct observation of thousands of tables from many different cultures and a number of them over 500 years old and a few over several thousand!!! Modern "stuff" just is not made to last that long...For your goals and aspirations...I couldn't suggest more strongly a fully traditional build and joinery system of a Farm or Harvest style Trestle Table...

Hope that wasn't to bold in format for feedback, and as stated, take what you can use of it...Let me know if I can expand on anything...
 

·
where's my table saw?
Joined
·
29,437 Posts
There are at least 4 ways to attach the legs .....

This is pretty much what I want. With the exception on the breadbroard on the ends and we will be cutting out the top off the legs to fit the apron flush with the legs (do not know the correct term) and using pocket screws to secure the apron and legs. The table top will have wooden pegs holding the boards together. My dad doesn't feel comfortable with cutting the pieces to fit without screws in it. Since it will be built to his knowledge and experience, I have conceded to having metal in my table. lol.

I wish it said what oil was used in this video.

Let's separate attaching the top to the aprons from attaching the aprons to the legs. Attaching the top to the aprons requires mechanical clips "Z" clips or elongated slots to allow for the wood movement. That's a different discussion for a different time.


Here's a "goofy guy" who shows 4 different ways (dowels, pocket screws, the Festool Domino and mortise and tenon) to attach the legs to the aprons. Well, actually only 3 are on video, the mortise and tenon scene is "missing", but that's the 4th way. I can't stand the guy, but the methods are shown here:


This video show the use of dowels and biscuits to join the legs to the aprons:


Another mechanical method allows for removing the legs for the times the table may be moved. This fastener could be used in conjunction with mortise and tenons which would add way more strength, you just wouldn't glue them together, a kind of hybrid:

The mortise and tenon joint is shown here:




I'm not recommending any particular method for you, but I have only used mortise and tenons, the traditional method, in my furniture. You and you father will have to agree on the method he feels "comfortable" with of course. FYI, I like to post You Tube videos because as the saying goes, a picture is worth a 1000 words and it's easier. We just have to get over the style of the presenters to get to the meat of the videos. :wink:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Donna Paxton

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,203 Posts
Over the years, I have repaired more chairs than I care to remember.
The newer chairs and tables as well as the older ones that were joined with dowels failed mainly for 2 reasons. One is because of starved glue joints and the other cause was mainly broken dowels. I consider broken dowels as a catastrophic failure because usually when the dowel breaks, it takes a part of the rail with it.
Almost every mortise and tenon failure was because of glue failure of sorts. In newer chairs, they appeared to have been glue starved. In the much older chairs, they seem to have succumbed to glue failure over the years from the stress and resulting movements. Point being, usually the M/T joint just needs to be re-glued. Rarely ever see a broken tenon except one on a while the tenon will have broken/separated on the grain line - easy repair.
Bottom line: M/T joints are stronger and more reliable in the long run - at least in my personal experience.
 

·
Former Member
Joined
·
1,512 Posts
Most Humble and Sincere thanks...

Donna, I don't know if you know how fortunate you are to have Jay take you under his wing, take advantage of it and pick his brain from start to finish, it will be an education of a lifetime.
Criminy Frank...!!!...I don't know what to write now...LOL

I will always hope to do my very best by the way of posters here on the forum with the best information I can offer...

Your kind words are most humbly received and I will always endeavor to live up to your accolade and perspective of my background...Again, deep thanks...
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top