12" jointer/planer combination machine vs 8" cast iron jointer and DeWalt 735

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cdnww

Discussion Starter · 6 d ago

Hi,
So I'm intending to build a woodworking shop in a 20x20 garage that would be dedicated to woodworking. One of the considerations is whether to buy separate jointer and planer, or a combination machine.

Before settling on the idea that I wanted a minimum 8" parallelogram jointer with spiral head, I briefly looked at benchtop jointers and came to the conclusion that they're not very good.

Aside from the length of board they were useful for, another of the negatives I read about was that their aluminum fences were horrible and required constant fiddling. One thing I know is that I don't want to be constantly fiddling with fences.

All of the combination jointer/planers I've looked at have aluminum rather than cast iron fences. I've read that they often have to be readjusted. Is it true and are they terrible?

Were I to go the separates route, I'd be looking at something like the King KC-85FX. This is in the 2200 CAD range. I'd probably combine with a DeWalt 735, putting me in for a new price of around 3k+tax. If I went combined unit, It would put me up to 4.5k+ tax but I'd have a much wider jointer and slightly less wide planer...

thoughts/opinions? thx

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

DrRobert

· #2 · 5 d ago

Can’t really advise. Depends on what you’re doing. I have an 8” jointer and 20” planer. Yeah a 12” jointer would be nice, but for me woukdnt be worth the hassle of reconfiguring a combo machine. I’m often back and forth between jointer and planer. That’s probably a fault in my work methods, I’ve seen many high level craftsman use combo machines.

woodnthings

· #3 · 5 d ago (Edited)

My first high dollar machine was a SCMI Min Max 12" jointer planer, about $ 3000. USD.
The dust collection was too finicky for me, but the changeover to the other machine was quick and easy.
I already had a 6" Craftsman joiner and a 13" Foley Belsaw planer. The irony is that I have rarely used the Min Max since.
The issue with boards wider than 6" is that some may tend to cup. That means ripping them to 6" and gluing them together,
So, do you really need a jointer wider than 6"? .... maybe an 8".
I would opt for a heavier 12" or 15" planer than the Dewalt 735, but that's just me. I like heavy cast iron machines.

GoIrish

· #4 · 5 d ago

I would think about the projects you want to do to see what makes sense for you. If you want to work with slabs then a CNC might make more sense. If you want to do frame and panel cabinets or doors with wild figure you probably have 1.5” rails and styles with veneered mdf panels and then a 6” jointer might do.

Steve Neul

· #5 · 5 d ago

cdnww said:
Hi,
So I'm intending to build a woodworking shop in a 20x20 garage that would be dedicated to woodworking. One of the considerations is whether to buy separate jointer and planer, or a combination machine.

Before settling on the idea that I wanted a minimum 8" parallelogram jointer with spiral head, I briefly looked at benchtop jointers and came to the conclusion that they're not very good.

Aside from the length of board they were useful for, another of the negatives I read about was that their aluminum fences were horrible and required constant fiddling. One thing I know is that I don't want to be constantly fiddling with fences.

All of the combination jointer/planers I've looked at have aluminum rather than cast iron fences. I've read that they often have to be readjusted. Is it true and are they terrible?

Were I to go the separates route, I'd be looking at something like the King KC-85FX. This is in the 2200 CAD range. I'd probably combine with a DeWalt 735, putting me in for a new price of around 3k+tax. If I went combined unit, It would put me up to 4.5k+ tax but I'd have a much wider jointer and slightly less wide planer...

thoughts/opinions? thx

Ask yourself how often you need to surface wood. I had a workshop for 30 years before I got a planer but had a jointer from the beginning. A 20x20 building may not be enough room for two machines and the jointers that double as a planer the tables are too short to be helpful. My vote would be on as long a bed jointer as you can get. My first jointer was only 3' long altogether and struggled to straighten long lengths of lumber on it. Straightening lumber is more important to me than surfacing. The lumber you buy is usually surfaced.

woodnthings

· #6 · 5 d ago

Steve Neul said:
Ask yourself how often you need to surface wood. I had a workshop for 30 years before I got a planer but had a jointer from the beginning. A 20x20 building may not be enough room for two machines and the jointers that double as a planer the tables are too short to be helpful. My vote would be on as long a bed jointer as you can get. My first jointer was only 3' long altogether and struggled to straighten long lengths of lumber on it. Straightening lumber is more important to me than surfacing. The lumber you buy is usually surfaced.

I gave up on edge jointing or straightening long boards on the jointer about 12 years ago.
I now use a sled, a straight line rip jig that I copied off a You Tuber that works great.
I've been posting it here for ever:

www.woodworkingtalk.com

straight line rip jig used

I had a bunch of rough sawn live edge oak to straight line, so I got out the jig I made for just this purpose. Man....! What a joy to use this jig. Snap on, RIP, snap off. actually 3 snaps per on and off. :yes: This one will do up to 8 foot long boards. No need for a 20 ft long RAS fence...

www.woodworkingtalk.com

www.woodworkingtalk.com

I now use my 6" jointer for surfacing 90% of the time, and for edge jointing boards 3 ft or so long.
Once you make this jig, you never want to edge joint on a jointer again because it will be 100 X faster.
One single pass and that's it, done.

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Rebelwork

· #7 · 5 d ago (Edited)

I rarely need a jointer, but many want them. Most suppliers that supply cabinet lumber will surface and edge the lumber before it arrives. I have had to edge 10,12,14,16’ lumber on a Powermatic jointer. No biggie if your use to it. I have yet to make a sled as It’s just one one thing to occupy an already crowded shop. A straight edge and a router works fine for me most times. For shorter stuff I just use ⬇

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B Coll

· #8 · 5 d ago

How long is the bed on the two jointers? Jointers are only capable of flattening with respect to the length of the bed. Is there significant setup changes that need to be made on the jointer/planer to switch between the two operations? All things being equal, jointer bed length and no addition machine change, then I would opt for the 12" jointer. If the dual use machine has a short jointer bed, I would go with the standard 8" jointer.

Rebelwork

· #9 · 5 d ago

Jointers are only capable of flattening with respect to the length of the bed.

I don’t know about that. You mean width?

woodnthings

· #10 · 5 d ago (Edited)

B Coll said:
How long is the bed on the two jointers? Jointers are only capable of flattening with respect to the length of the bed. Is there significant setup changes that need to be made on the jointer/planer to switch between the two operations? All things being equal, jointer bed length and no addition machine change, then I would opt for the 12" jointer. If the dual use machine has a short jointer bed, I would go with the standard 8" jointer.

Here's the issues with a short length bed. Let's say the board has a concave curve on one face/side.
As you push the board over the cutter it will only remove a small amount off that end.
Nothing will be removed in the portion between the ends because it's raised up, or concave.
Then you flip it end for end and repeat the process, and the same thing happens.
Finally, the end starts to drop off the end of the table, and it starts to work, but it's a long time consuming process.

A board's faces are "flattened"
A board's edges are "straightened"

B Coll

· #11 · 5 d ago

woodnthings said:
Here's the issues with a short length bed. Let's say the board has a concave curve on one side.
As you push the board over the cutter it will only remove a small amount off that end.
Nothing will be removed in the portion between the ends because it's raised up, or concave.
Then you flip it end for end and repeat the process, and the same thing happens.
Finally, the end starts to drop off the end of the table, and it starts to work, but it's a long time consuming process.

A board's faces are "flattened"
A board's edges are "straightened"

That is exactly what I was saying. It is like comparing the jointing capability of a #4 plane to a #7 plane

builtinbkyn2

· #12 · 5 d ago

No one correct answer to this. I've have both separate machines and now have a combo machine. If I had my druthers I'd have separates. But my shop, which is larger than your 20x20 cannot accommodate them comfortably. So I have a Minimax combo. It's a very capable machine and in some ways better than the separates I had. Sure change-over can be problematic when things aren't planned out well, but it still gets the job done and well. The bed isn't short but it also has extensions, making it about as long as any other 12" jointer. Roller stands help. They were also needed at times when using the separates. Personally I would avoid a lunchbox planer which I also had. In the end it pretty much needs to occupy the same amount of shop space as a full size planer if you want it to be available without the hassle of setting it up each time it's needed.

Reactions: 2

builtinbkyn2

· #13 · 5 d ago

2

woodnthings said:
Here's the issues with a short length bed. Let's say the board has a concave curve on one side.
As you push the board over the cutter it will only remove a small amount off that end.
Nothing will be removed in the portion between the ends because it's raised up, or concave.
Then you flip it end for end and repeat the process, and the same thing happens.
Finally, the end starts to drop off the end of the table, and it starts to work, but it's a long time consuming process.

A board's faces are "flattened"
A board's edges are "straightened"

My 12" Minimax has an 8 foot bed with the extensions attached. Now short at all.

By the way, a "concave curve on one side" is called a bow. If the bow is that severe, you will experience what you described, with any jointer. The "trick" is to remove of the high spots from each end with a hand plane so the board can pass over the blades and be face jointed.

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JayArr

· #14 · 5 d ago

2

I have an old Craftsman 6" jointer with all steel fences and they stay put, no fiddling. It does a good job on short lumber for making cabinet doors and drawers but anything longer than 3 feet becomes a challenge. I paired it up with a 12" Craftsman planer from Lowes.ca it's not helical but it does a decent job and the price point is a few hundred dollars less than the Dewalt. I got the new Craftsman planer and the used Craftsman jointer (Craigslist) for less than the Dewalt 735.

The big question is "what are you building"

Keep in mind that when you go to the lumber supplier for rough-cut there aren't a lot of 12" wide boards and they are more warped and more expensive than the 6" wide boards so gearing up your equipment for 12" widths could be a headache or a waste of $$.

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cdnww

Discussion Starter · #15 · 5 d ago

builtinbkyn2 said:
No one correct answer to this. I've have both separate machines and now have a combo machine. If I had my druthers I'd have separates. But my shop, which is larger than your 20x20 cannot accommodate them comfortably. So I have a Minimax combo. It's a very capable machine and in some ways better than the separates I had. Sure change-over can be problematic when things aren't planned out well, but it still gets the job done and well. The bed isn't short but it also has extensions, making it about as long as any other 12" jointer. Roller stands help. They were also needed at times when using the separates. Personally I would avoid a lunchbox planer which I also had. In the end it pretty much needs to occupy the same amount of shop space as a full size planer if you want it to be available without the hassle of setting it up each time it's needed.

Given my shop size, I would probably have to put away the 735 when not in use. I wouldn't have to move it far, but it wouldn't be out all the time. So thinking it through, I'm not really gaining anything by going the separates. Either way, I have to do something between steps.

If I were to go with a 12" jointer/planer combo, I'd gain width on the machine, but would lose significant length. What if I put roller stands at the end? I checked the king website (not necessarily the one I'd get, but for reference) and their combo machine is 51" long whereas their standalone 12" jointer is 84" long. That's a lot to lose.... Why do they compromise the table length so much? That said, you get a 3hp motor with spiral cutterhead. Are they just assuming if someone doesn't have space for both machines they don't have an extra 30" length for the combo? That said, I don't see myself doing pieces longer than 8ft any time soon...

On another note, I went to a lumber yard just to get a feel for the place and what was available. They had a very good selection of hardwood boards and a good amount were > 8" wide. I am definitely someone that likes the wider boards and feel there's something special about those >10" boards. The stuff I'm most interested in doing would all benefit from being able to use wider boards.

I think I'm convincing myself to go 12" on the jointer. Now it's just a matter of which combo, or do I go with a dedicated unit for the longer bed and just buy the 735 for planing? So many decisions...

I'm still interested in getting more feedback on the fences of the combo units.

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alphonse53

· #16 · 5 d ago (Edited)

I have a JJP-12 and with proper rollers and a little know-how, the short tables aren’t as much of a problem as keeping the tables aligned to the cutter and each other. I found that out when I replaced the original knives with carbide. The fence IS crap: not milled flat and cheap support. I have to set it with my igaging protractor and check it every time I use it. If you put it on casters, you’re gonna be machining a guard support bracket out of solid aluminum when it breaks after you pull on it a few times. That’s a Jet gimmick. I’m not thrilled, but for $2500 in it, I’m sticking.

ducbsa

· #17 · 4 d ago

woodnthings said:
I gave up on edge jointing or straightening long boards on the jointer about 12 years ago.
I now use a sled, a straight line rip jig that I copied off a You Tuber that works great.
I've been posting it here for ever:

straight line rip jig used

I had a bunch of rough sawn live edge oak to straight line, so I got out the jig I made for just this purpose. Man....! What a joy to use this jig. Snap on, RIP, snap off. actually 3 snaps per on and off. :yes: This one will do up to 8 foot long boards. No need for a 20 ft long RAS fence...

www.woodworkingtalk.com

I now use my 6" jointer for surfacing 90% of the time, and for edge jointing boards 3 ft or so long.
Once you make this jig, you never want to edge joint on a jointer again because it will be 100 X faster.
One single pass and that's it, done.

I toured this factory Home and they joint on a table saw.

ducbsa

· #18 · 4 d ago

cdnww said:
Given my shop size, I would probably have to put away the 735 when not in use.

This my cart for my planer:

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builtinbkyn2

· #19 · 4 d ago

cdnww said:
Given my shop size, I would probably have to put away the 735 when not in use. I wouldn't have to move it far, but it wouldn't be out all the time. So thinking it through, I'm not really gaining anything by going the separates. Either way, I have to do something between steps.

If I were to go with a 12" jointer/planer combo, I'd gain width on the machine, but would lose significant length. What if I put roller stands at the end? I checked the king website (not necessarily the one I'd get, but for reference) and their combo machine is 51" long whereas their standalone 12" jointer is 84" long. That's a lot to lose.... Why do they compromise the table length so much? That said, you get a 3hp motor with spiral cutterhead. Are they just assuming if someone doesn't have space for both machines they don't have an extra 30" length for the combo? That said, I don't see myself doing pieces longer than 8ft any time soon...

On another note, I went to a lumber yard just to get a feel for the place and what was available. They had a very good selection of hardwood boards and a good amount were > 8" wide. I am definitely someone that likes the wider boards and feel there's something special about those >10" boards. The stuff I'm most interested in doing would all benefit from being able to use wider boards.

I think I'm convincing myself to go 12" on the jointer. Now it's just a matter of which combo, or do I go with a dedicated unit for the longer bed and just buy the 735 for planing? So many decisions...

I'm still interested in getting more feedback on the fences of the combo units.

Not sure why the table lengths for a jointer bed on a combo machine are designed shorter, other than what you stated or maybe it would make them overly heavy - they are pretty heavy as they are. Does King offer extensions for their machine? The extensions I have on my Minimax are from Hammer as I didn't find them offered by SCM for the Minimax. I simply had to bolt the brackets to the bed ends. The extensions hook onto the brackets. The extensions and brackets are heavy duty. I generally keep them stored on the floor next to the machine unless I'm working on a project that has long boards - which I am currently doing on a workbench build - 84" long bench. I did need to use roller stands on each end in addition to the extensions, to assist in jointing the long 2" thick hard maple boards that are almost 7.5' long and 8" - 9" wide. (Link to build with pics of jointer in use)

I agree on the wider boards being "more special". They tend to have more figure than the narrower boards. I guess that may be a function of where those boards are harvested from on the tree/log during milling. Plenty of long, wide rough stock available at Amish mills not far from me in Eastern Ohio. I feel working from wider stock, you can get much nicer grain matching when gluing up panels and more than likely, less waste.

A combo machine is a compromise, but not in the quality of the machine or the quality of results they produce - at least not the Minimax I purchased which is more expensive than the Jet I considered. For me, it was a solution to getting things to fit into the space I have.

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Steve Neul

· #20 · 4 d ago

woodnthings said:
I gave up on edge jointing or straightening long boards on the jointer about 12 years ago.
I now use a sled, a straight line rip jig that I copied off a You Tuber that works great.
I've been posting it here for ever:

straight line rip jig used

I had a bunch of rough sawn live edge oak to straight line, so I got out the jig I made for just this purpose. Man....! What a joy to use this jig. Snap on, RIP, snap off. actually 3 snaps per on and off. :yes: This one will do up to 8 foot long boards. No need for a 20 ft long RAS fence...

www.woodworkingtalk.com

View attachment 452127

I now use my 6" jointer for surfacing 90% of the time, and for edge jointing boards 3 ft or so long.
Once you make this jig, you never want to edge joint on a jointer again because it will be 100 X faster.
One single pass and that's it, done.

I made a extension table for the little craftsman jointer I have that helps a lot. I have since bought a 12" Northfield jointer and even though the table is only about 6' long I have jointed 12' long boards for glueup.

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