Rail and stile panel size limit?? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 04-20-2014, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Rail and stile panel size limit??

Happy Easter!!

I am getting wood ready for rail and stile solid panel cabinet doors. It seems that a couple of the larger doors might be big and wondering if it would be a good idea to split the panel in half with a mullion bar?

The doors will be 3/4" red oak with an outside dimension of approximately 23X23 The panel will be a raised panel 18X18 of 3/4" red oak.

Any input greatly appreciated. JIm
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post #2 of 15 Old 04-20-2014, 12:18 PM
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I don't see a problem with that. The only guide i really follow is to make sure you keep the rails and stiles in proportion to the panel. You don't want them looking anorexic or, depending on the joinery, possible failing.
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post #3 of 15 Old 04-21-2014, 12:07 AM
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I built these doors using rail and stile joinery. These are sliding doors so on the back I face glued pieces of plywood over the joints to ensure that there will be no separation. I know this isn't much help to you but I thought I'd show off my doors.
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post #4 of 15 Old 04-21-2014, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input. Great doors, I would be looking for an opportunity to post them also

I have been poking around the web looking for pictures of cabinet doors with mullions. Trying to figure what would look "in proportion" Is there a rule of thumb on this? Mullion search is frustrating, mostly glass inserts!
Thanks Jim
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post #5 of 15 Old 04-21-2014, 11:39 AM
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You have a good question. Cabinet doors look better when they are taller than they are wide. Although that size would work, it might look 'boxy' to you. I would say that size would be at a discernible limit to make a decision of just a single panel that size or going with a center mullion.

If you divided in the center of the panel, your smaller panels would be less than 9" each, and may look busy. So, it's a personal decision, to go with a single panel. It should work out OK. Just go through the steps to do a proper glue up, with well acclimated wood that matches well, and 'float' it in the groove. You can tack it from the back at the top and bottom center.





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post #6 of 15 Old 04-21-2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
You have a good question. Cabinet doors look better when they are taller than they are wide. Although that size would work, it might look 'boxy' to you. I would say that size would be at a discernible limit to make a decision of just a single panel that size or going with a center mullion.

If you divided in the center of the panel, your smaller panels would be less than 9" each, and may look busy. So, it's a personal decision, to go with a single panel. It should work out OK. Just go through the steps to do a proper glue up, with well acclimated wood that matches well, and 'float' it in the groove. You can tack it from the back at the top and bottom center.


Ok like C'Man says smaller doors can look busy but if they are to small the raised panel will not work. What that size is depends on the panel bit and stile size. Just a reminder to watch those small cabinets that generally sit next to a window or just fill space. I have seen many doors made flat on those cabinets because the raised panel would not work. I hate it and in my opinion it's a flashing sign saying look I didn't pay attention and screwed up. Case in point the cabinets in my house. Not my work they were here when we bought it.

That door is 7.5" which the flat part of the panel would have been a 1/2" looking busy or stupid. A 9" door would have a 2" flat area with a raised panel. It also would be about the smallest width for raised panel doors in my opinion. Flat panel may be able to go as small as 7". I know this is way more then what was asked but felt it was needed info for many to consider.
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post #7 of 15 Old 04-21-2014, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbrown View Post
I have seen many doors made flat on those cabinets because the raised panel would not work.
This is why drawer fronts are usually a solid flat panel with a profiled edge.





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post #8 of 15 Old 04-22-2014, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input.

I am poor at design and planning so good at rectifying mistakes. Your cabinet door is something I would do. I would look for a carving or glass insert, maybe even leave the door off and just have a display area, fancy glass with a light behind it? Generally a work around, if it is important or bad enough.

Never too much info, everything helps.

I have been given a bit too mull over, not sure which way to go. using both mulled and unmulled doors is an option. Mulls also eliminate gluing up large panels. I am going to do the top row of drawers with slab, not sure on the lower drawers. Raised panels on wall cabinets and flat panel on base?

Semper Fi H 2/3 67/68 Master Mistaker JIm
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post #9 of 15 Old 04-22-2014, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrbus View Post
Mulls also eliminate gluing up large panels.
You don't have to glue up solid wood. You could use plywood for raised panels...
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/ea...rnatives-4211/




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post #10 of 15 Old 04-22-2014, 10:47 AM
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That size door is at about the limit of a single panel door size. However, if you do divide it, consider a vertical mullion rather than horizontal. Also, The proportion thing which rrbrown was talking about is affected by the width of your rails and stiles to begin with. I generally make them 2", but some shops do wider. When needed for proportion's sake, I have gone as narrow as 1 3/4". The flat face of a raised panel is also not always the same, because not all panel raising bits cut the same width off of the edges. Anyway, you should get a ruler and pencil out and do a scale drawing of it with a mullion. If you're no good at drawing, use graph paper and a ruler. It's just straight lines.
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post #11 of 15 Old 04-22-2014, 09:47 PM
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Let me toss something out about panel doors.

If there is a hinge about every 16 to 18 inches, the door tends to stay flat and work well.

What this means is a 24 inch high door with two hinges would work well. Two hinges about 3 inches from top and bottom leave 18 inches between hinges. There should be no problems.

A 36 inch door with three hinges, one in the center and two hinges about 3 inches from the top and bottom will work well.

It's an approximation but it works well for me.

Use the right tool for the job.

Rich (Tilting right)
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post #12 of 15 Old 04-22-2014, 11:05 PM
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These cabinets are from my parents old house. They are cherry with plywood panels. Just another option for you.
Nick

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post #13 of 15 Old 04-23-2014, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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All these people from all over the country trying to help, amazing world we live in!

Drawings on paper are not my strong point, I will do them roughly. But I like to do cardboard mockups.

PLywood panels work well, I have done plywood. This time would like to move up to raised panels. I have even done plexiglass mirror for panels.

This was my first rail and stile. I hired a cabinet maker in Arcadia FL to build the ceiling frame with the condition that I was his helper so I could learn. This was a bus conversion I built.

Thanks for all the input, always greatly appreciated. Your ideas help alot.
Master Mistaker JIm
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post #14 of 15 Old 04-24-2014, 11:07 AM
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Nice job on the bus, that ceiling must make it seem very roomy.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

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post #15 of 15 Old 04-24-2014, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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I was in a few conversions before I started mine, some were like dark caves. So I kept the upper cabinets to a minimum, large windows and mirrored the ceiling. Never ending project, kept me occupied for several years, plus I lived in it for 10 years!
Thanks JIm
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