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BNB187 04-01-2019 07:01 PM

Garage Door
 
I've got a detached shop that has 2 13'6" wide by 8' tall doors with raised panels. I've slapped some caulking and paint on the bottom panels a couple of times to try and get a few more years out of it. I think the time has come to replace it. Unfortunately, the custom size of this door makes it quite an expensive project, somewhere in the neighborhood of $6000-$7000 (Canadian $). I had this thought that perhaps I could make these doors with simple shaker style panels or if I want to fancy it up a bit use wainscotting for the panels.

What I am struggling with here is just how to make close to 14-foot lumber straight enough for this. I can't imagine getting decent results out of a jointer that only has 4-foot table length. With something so long I'm a little skeptical of running it through the table saw without getting some nasty kickback at some point

I suppose the other consideration would be to use smaller lengths of lumber and dowel or finger joint or something like that to get to the length I need. It will be painted so finger joints or something of that nature could be hidden with a bit of filler and sanding if necessary.

I've never made something this large so any help is appreciated. Not that I can imagine it matters much when it is going to be painted but I live on the south coast of B.C. about 2 hours north of Seattle, not known for huge amounts of heat and humidity.

Thx

TomCT2 04-01-2019 07:38 PM

14' on a table saw is not an issue given:
1. splitter/riving knife
2. support in and support out - both for approx 10' (or more) of board. good blade - "glue ready" ripper

this is a roll-up type overhead door?
did one for a colonial style house/garage - similar width, but single door.

had to 'pass' with the architectural style - so it rolled up, but closed looked like carriage doors.

I cheated - each roll up panel had aluminum angle iron bolted to the bottom rail. prevented sagging....
roller assemblies were also through bolted - screws would work loose. all stainless bolt/nuts/washers.

BNB187 04-01-2019 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCT2 (Post 2048055)
14' on a table saw is not an issue given:
1. splitter/riving knife
2. support in and support out - both for approx 10' (or more) of board. good blade - "glue ready" ripper

this is a roll-up type overhead door?
did one for a colonial style house/garage - similar width, but single door.

had to 'pass' with the architectural style - so it rolled up, but closed looked like carriage doors.

I cheated - each roll up panel had aluminum angle iron bolted to the bottom rail. prevented sagging....
roller assemblies were also through bolted - screws would work loose. all stainless bolt/nuts/washers.

It is a roll-up style door with 7 panels I think. The current door has aluminum supports bolted to the inside that I thought I could reuse. So, if I run the long pieces through the table saw is this not going to just transfer any inconsistencies from the crown of the wood to the cut edge? I've seen a few guys out there that make a sled with a piece of plywood or mdf and clamp the piece being cut to that and run it through, but this seems a bit clunky for something this long.

GeorgeC 04-01-2019 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCT2 (Post 2048055)
14' on a table saw is not an issue given:
1. splitter/riving knife
2. support in and support out - both for approx 10' (or more) of board. good blade - "glue ready" ripper

this is a roll-up type overhead door?
did one for a colonial style house/garage - similar width, but single door.

had to 'pass' with the architectural style - so it rolled up, but closed looked like carriage doors.

I cheated - each roll up panel had aluminum angle iron bolted to the bottom rail. prevented sagging....
roller assemblies were also through bolted - screws would work loose. all stainless bolt/nuts/washers.


Completely agree. I have run 12' without any problems. Using feather board guides will help a lot. Make sure there is no side pressure exerted from any object that is not part of your saw, iel be surfe nothing on outfeed table causes any side pressure.


I do not like infeed tables because they keep me too far away from the saw.



George

Steve Neul 04-01-2019 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BNB187 (Post 2048045)
I've got a detached shop that has 2 13'6" wide by 8' tall doors with raised panels. I've slapped some caulking and paint on the bottom panels a couple of times to try and get a few more years out of it. I think the time has come to replace it. Unfortunately, the custom size of this door makes it quite an expensive project, somewhere in the neighborhood of $6000-$7000 (Canadian $). I had this thought that perhaps I could make these doors with simple shaker style panels or if I want to fancy it up a bit use wainscotting for the panels.

What I am struggling with here is just how to make close to 14-foot lumber straight enough for this. I can't imagine getting decent results out of a jointer that only has 4-foot table length. With something so long I'm a little skeptical of running it through the table saw without getting some nasty kickback at some point

I suppose the other consideration would be to use smaller lengths of lumber and dowel or finger joint or something like that to get to the length I need. It will be painted so finger joints or something of that nature could be hidden with a bit of filler and sanding if necessary.

I've never made something this large so any help is appreciated. Not that I can imagine it matters much when it is going to be painted but I live on the south coast of B.C. about 2 hours north of Seattle, not known for huge amounts of heat and humidity.

Thx

If it were me I would use pressure treated lumber and make the panels out of pressure treated plywood. 14' lumber shouldn't be difficult to get. I buy 16' lumber all the time.

Since pressure treated is usually fresh from the factory you should pick out some straight boards and stack and sticker the wood for 4-6 weeks and let the moisture content dry out as much as possible before building with it. It wouldn't hurt to buy more lumber than you think it needs in case some of the wood warps as it dries.

Once painted you should never have any more problems with the doors. It would probably last a decade or more if you didn't put anything on it and the cost of treated wood isn't that much more than common construction lumber. .

Pineknot_86 04-02-2019 09:42 AM

Is it necessary to stick with the original dimensions? Consider- framing it for a standard factory door which would be less expensive. Does it have to be wood? The long boards and panels tell me humidity might be a problem.I recall some doors were fiberglass but haven't seen them in a long time.

TomCT2 04-02-2019 10:44 AM

there's a couple options.

- a sharp circular saw and a long straight edge clamped on the hooked board will give you the first straight side.
- a long sled is entirely doable and highly effective - it will however be heavier and more awkward to to handle than 'just the board' making a good infeed/outfeed setup up even more important.
- a "long fence" can be used - running the concave side on the fence first and cutting the convex side 'straight' - I have a 10' chunk of aluminum angle I clamp to the existing fence - a 14' cut length is probably a tad extreme for that method.


given two doors @ seven panels each - I'd say a sled is probably your best option.

firehawkmph 04-03-2019 08:33 AM

Typically an overhead door is the same size as the rough opening. Adding the jambs and the weather strips provide the overlap. You can get a 14' x 8' steel door that is not a special order door, will be the same price as a 16' x 8'. The door will overlap the opening 3" on each side, which isn't a big deal. I'm a door installer in Ohio. In my area, a door like that which would be 2" thick, fully insulated, steel front and back, would be $1250 installed, so $2500 for two doors, US dollars. Some of the manufacturers still make wood doors, but they are very expensive and after a few years develop a sag in the middle.
Mike Hawkins

BNB187 04-03-2019 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineknot_86 (Post 2048163)
Is it necessary to stick with the original dimensions? Consider- framing it for a standard factory door which would be less expensive. Does it have to be wood? The long boards and panels tell me humidity might be a problem.I recall some doors were fiberglass but haven't seen them in a long time.

Reframing would be more costly than the custom doors. I would have to put in a monster parallam beam and possible a steel support post in the middle to hold everything up.

BNB187 04-03-2019 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firehawkmph (Post 2048323)
Typically an overhead door is the same size as the rough opening. Adding the jambs and the weather strips provide the overlap. You can get a 14' x 8' steel door that is not a special order door, will be the same price as a 16' x 8'. The door will overlap the opening 3" on each side, which isn't a big deal. I'm a door installer in Ohio. In my area, a door like that which would be 2" thick, fully insulated, steel front and back, would be $1250 installed, so $2500 for two doors, US dollars. Some of the manufacturers still make wood doors, but they are very expensive and after a few years develop a sag in the middle.
Mike Hawkins

Interesting, I'll have to see if there is room to make the overlap work. I had a couple of guys come in for a quote and no one ever mentioned it. The best I got from one fellow was to take a 14' with no raised panels and have it cut to size for my application. Thanks for the tip I will look into it and see if there is room to make the overlap work.

Thanks
Mike

BNB187 04-03-2019 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firehawkmph (Post 2048323)
Typically an overhead door is the same size as the rough opening. Adding the jambs and the weather strips provide the overlap. You can get a 14' x 8' steel door that is not a special order door, will be the same price as a 16' x 8'. The door will overlap the opening 3" on each side, which isn't a big deal. I'm a door installer in Ohio. In my area, a door like that which would be 2" thick, fully insulated, steel front and back, would be $1250 installed, so $2500 for two doors, US dollars. Some of the manufacturers still make wood doors, but they are very expensive and after a few years develop a sag in the middle.
Mike Hawkins

I measured the doors, they are 13' 1 1/2" wide by 8 feet tall. There is about 7 inches of clearance to the sides of each door and about 12" in the middle. So I suppose that it would be feasible to run a 14' door, however, it would likely need to be a simple flat door anyways as any panels would have a strange look with the extra 5 1/4" of overlap on each side.

unburled 04-03-2019 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BNB187 (Post 2048045)
13'6" wide by 8' tall doors with raised panels.

I'd use 20' lengths of angle iron to make a structural frame, then build a wood paneled insert out of 3/4" stock.

woodnthings 04-03-2019 05:11 PM

Ripping a straight 14 ft length .....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BNB187 (Post 2048061)
It is a roll-up style door with 7 panels I think. The current door has aluminum supports bolted to the inside that I thought I could reuse. So, if I run the long pieces through the table saw is this not going to just transfer any inconsistencies from the crown of the wood to the cut edge? I've seen a few guys out there that make a sled with a piece of plywood or mdf and clamp the piece being cut to that and run it through, but this seems a bit clunky for something this long.


Yes, you have to start with straight edges! Any table saw will just duplicate any curves already present on the edges.

Quote:

Originally Posted by firehawkmph (Post 2048323)
Typically an overhead door is the same size as the rough opening. Adding the jambs and the weather strips provide the overlap. You can get a 14' x 8' steel door that is not a special order door, will be the same price as a 16' x 8'. The door will overlap the opening 3" on each side, which isn't a big deal. I'm a door installer in Ohio. In my area, a door like that which would be 2" thick, fully insulated, steel front and back, would be $1250 installed, so $2500 for two doors, US dollars. Some of the manufacturers still make wood doors, but they are very expensive and after a few years develop a sag in the middle.
Mike Hawkins

Any wood door, paneled or not will weigh 5 to 10 X more than an aluminum one and be all but impossible to roll up. I made some replacement sliding barn doors for a friend that measured just under 8 ft wide X 11 ft tall. They weighed a TON! I used a special 28 ft long RAS setup to straight line rip them because the mill didn't get them straight enough:
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/evil-machine-28461/


You might consider using sliding doors and hang them from rails which will hold the weigh, BUT they won't seal up as well as a roll up. I use wedges to tighten my rollups to the jams in the winter to conserve the interior heat I pay so dearly for with electric heat.

firehawkmph 04-04-2019 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BNB187 (Post 2048407)
I measured the doors, they are 13' 1 1/2" wide by 8 feet tall. There is about 7 inches of clearance to the sides of each door and about 12" in the middle. So I suppose that it would be feasible to run a 14' door, however, it would likely need to be a simple flat door anyways as any panels would have a strange look with the extra 5 1/4" of overlap on each side.

Most of the garage door manufacturers make a steel door without any panels stamped into it. There is a woodgrain texture on it. They look nice and are popular in condo developments that are replacing the old Masonite doors with the rough sawn texture on the front. That would work in your situation, no one would know there was an overlap there.
Mike Hawkins

BNB187 04-05-2019 02:10 PM

I've called around to a few places and got some quotes. I found a place that will do both doors with 2" insulated steel for $3275 (Canadian $) so I'm leaning towards this option. It seems that steel is likely to be far less problematic in the future than making them out of wood, and the extra insulation will help out in the winter on reducing the propane bill a bit.

Packard 05-03-2019 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BNB187 (Post 2048045)
I've got a detached shop that has 2 13'6" wide by 8' tall doors with raised panels. I've slapped some caulking and paint on the bottom panels a couple of times to try and get a few more years out of it. I think the time has come to replace it. Unfortunately, the custom size of this door makes it quite an expensive project, somewhere in the neighborhood of $6000-$7000 (Canadian $). I had this thought that perhaps I could make these doors with simple shaker style panels or if I want to fancy it up a bit use wainscotting for the panels.

What I am struggling with here is just how to make close to 14-foot lumber straight enough for this. I can't imagine getting decent results out of a jointer that only has 4-foot table length. With something so long I'm a little skeptical of running it through the table saw without getting some nasty kickback at some point

I suppose the other consideration would be to use smaller lengths of lumber and dowel or finger joint or something like that to get to the length I need. It will be painted so finger joints or something of that nature could be hidden with a bit of filler and sanding if necessary.

I've never made something this large so any help is appreciated. Not that I can imagine it matters much when it is going to be painted but I live on the south coast of B.C. about 2 hours north of Seattle, not known for huge amounts of heat and humidity.

Thx

Are just the panels bad or the rails and stiles too? I plan on replacing the panels in my two garage doors. I want more light in the garage so I am planning on replacing the wood panels with these lexan ones:https://www.teksupply.com/contractor...te_panels.html

At 8mm thick (about 1/3") and double wall, it should provide some insulation and have good rigidity. And very light weight so the garage door mechanism will be undertaxed.

I plan on making a template to screw on the individual panels and using a guided router bit to cut the old panels out.

While my plywood panels (lower ones only) are in poor shape, the frames are in good shape. The clear panels with black frames is a very modern look. The corrugated construction will reduce visibility significantly.https://aaronoverheaddoors.com/wp-co...6-540x272.jpeg


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