Rookie Veneering Question - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 05-21-2016, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Rookie Veneering Question

I am veneering my wood dash from my Fiat Spider with a raw Madrone Burl veneer. I'm not real happy with the butt joint between the edging and front face, but I think I can live with it. I used the wood glue and iron method to attach the veneer. After I glued, I applied a light stain. At this point noticed a very slight pressure mar (maybe a pressure wheel during the cutting process?) going across the face. I attempted to slightly dampen and iron the slight indentation out, but it just created bubbles. I attempted to reheat the glue and applying pressure (which is what I'm waiting on now). If this doesn't work, what should I do next? Thanks for any input.
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post #2 of 15 Old 05-21-2016, 10:57 PM
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Is it paper back veneer? If so it's probably not going to work anyway. Most paperback veneer is laminated with hot melt glue which sounds like what you have. Also if it's paperback veneer it's probably not going to tolerate the temperature of the car. Then if it was common wood glue you used then it won't tolerate the humidity of being in a car. It would have to be an exterior glue such as titebond III laminated to a wood substrate.
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post #3 of 15 Old 05-22-2016, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
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It's a raw veneer and I used Titebond II.
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post #4 of 15 Old 05-22-2016, 07:07 AM
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It's a raw veneer and I used Titebond II.
Maybe if you can keep the car from getting too hot on the inside you might get away with it. One of the problems with PVA glues with veneer it tends to stick around the parameter and stay wet in the center. It may be even though you heated it with an iron it didn't dry completely and let go. You might get a hypodermic needle and inject super glue under the veneer where the bubbles are and heat it with an iron. Caution though, any smoke coming from super glue will put your eyes out.

Next time you try a project like that use a resin glue. It works like wood glue except you mix two parts together. It will dry and harden anywhere. You could fill a jar all the way to the top and cap it and the next morning it would be hard all the way through it.

As far as fixing the spot you might wash as much of the stain off as you can with lacquer thinner and re-sand the piece and see if that removes the spot.
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post #5 of 15 Old 05-22-2016, 07:19 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your feedback! I reheated the glue and clamped overnight and it seemed re-attach the bubbles. There is a couple of small spots (1/4" long) where it looks like the veneer cracked and have a black outline. The only solution I see for this is to cut the black outline out and fill the opening. And of course the original issue of the pressure mar, which is looking more and more as a minor issue the more problems I have.
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post #6 of 15 Old 05-22-2016, 07:53 AM
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As small as the crack is I think I would fill it with wood putty. I think it would be much less noticeable than trying to patch it.

If the mark you are worried about is just a light spot you might color it in with a touch up marker or graining pen.
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post #7 of 15 Old 05-22-2016, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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I've been able to close the two small cracks, it's just the black outline that needs removed. Can't really cover black with something lighter. The only solution I can think of is to remove the black outline. Maybe either cutting with an exacti knife or a Dremel. Maybe I will try and sand down a bit with a Dremel first.
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post #8 of 15 Old 05-22-2016, 10:11 AM
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I've been able to close the two small cracks, it's just the black outline that needs removed. Can't really cover black with something lighter. The only solution I can think of is to remove the black outline. Maybe either cutting with an exacti knife or a Dremel. Maybe I will try and sand down a bit with a Dremel first.
You might post a picture so we are on the same page. You can cover black with something lighter. On a spot like that I often start the finish and ignore a spot like that. Then when I see exactly what the color is I mask off the dark like and put a thin layer of paint on the line which matches the background color of the wood. It's like when someone drops something heavy on a table top making a deep gouge in the top. I often will fill the gouge with a colored shellac stick which is known as a burn-in. The burn-in starts with the lighter color of the wood and once filled looks like a big spot of wood putty which sticks out like a sore thumb. The next step is to take a graining pen that is the color of the dark part of the grain and draw the wood grain on the burn-in making the spot almost disappear. There is just a lot of ways to make bad spots go away.
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post #9 of 15 Old 05-22-2016, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Rookie Veneer Question

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Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
You might post a picture so we are on the same page. You can cover black with something lighter. On a spot like that I often start the finish and ignore a spot like that. Then when I see exactly what the color is I mask off the dark like and put a thin layer of paint on the line which matches the background color of the wood. It's like when someone drops something heavy on a table top making a deep gouge in the top. I often will fill the gouge with a colored shellac stick which is known as a burn-in. The burn-in starts with the lighter color of the wood and once filled looks like a big spot of wood putty which sticks out like a sore thumb. The next step is to take a graining pen that is the color of the dark part of the grain and draw the wood grain on the burn-in making the spot almost disappear. There is just a lot of ways to make bad spots go away.


Here are the black marks and you can see the indentation running from top to bottom. Thanks for the help!
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post #10 of 15 Old 05-22-2016, 06:52 PM
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Those black lines are not as difficult to fix as you think. What I think I'm seeing would be worse, it appears there are glue stains where glue as come through the void. I believe this is what you are referring to as pressure points. You could check this by wetting the veneer and see if the wood is lighter in a spot around the black lines. If it is I would soak the spot with water and wash it off with a rag and hot water. When you can get the wood to where it is the same color as the rest of the wood then let it dry. Then you could proceed with the repairs. If you have some of the veneer scraps go ahead and stain and or finish the wood the color you want so you can get an idea of the finish color. Then get a small can of a natural wood putty and some universal tinting colors. The tinting colors are the colorants a paint company has in their machines to tint paint. You would need raw umber and red oxide. It wouldn't take but a thimble of each color to do it as a little goes a long way so you might only use a drop or less of each color. You would mix the putty to match the color of the dark part of the grain. Then put masking tape on each side of the void where the black line is and fill it. If there is any error on color it would be better to be lighter than darker. Once dry sand the wood and proceed with the finish.
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post #11 of 15 Old 05-22-2016, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Those black lines are not as difficult to fix as you think. What I think I'm seeing would be worse, it appears there are glue stains where glue as come through the void. I believe this is what you are referring to as pressure points. You could check this by wetting the veneer and see if the wood is lighter in a spot around the black lines. If it is I would soak the spot with water and wash it off with a rag and hot water. When you can get the wood to where it is the same color as the rest of the wood then let it dry. Then you could proceed with the repairs. If you have some of the veneer scraps go ahead and stain and or finish the wood the color you want so you can get an idea of the finish color. Then get a small can of a natural wood putty and some universal tinting colors. The tinting colors are the colorants a paint company has in their machines to tint paint. You would need raw umber and red oxide. It wouldn't take but a thimble of each color to do it as a little goes a long way so you might only use a drop or less of each color. You would mix the putty to match the color of the dark part of the grain. Then put masking tape on each side of the void where the black line is and fill it. If there is any error on color it would be better to be lighter than darker. Once dry sand the wood and proceed with the finish.
The line in the pic is an indentation that runs the length of the veneer sheets. After I noticed it on my dash part I went back to look on the raw sheets and it is there, but very faint. I need to look at my veneer sheets in better light to make note of there indentation lines. I can actually feel the small indentation line. It looks like these could have been made by a wheel that would keep pressure on the sheet while it was being cut. After I stained the dash piece and noticed the line and I tried slightly damping and heating, which is what caused the bubbles (but this could have been because I did not clamp the veneer afterward). I'm a little hesitant about trying this again. If I tried this again, should I use the steam function on the iron or just moisten the veneer where the indentation is? How hot should the iron be? Would the stain effect the ability to raise this indentation by moisture and heat? If so, should I try and remove the stain with paint thinner if I try again? Also, should I try and use this technique on the raw sheets prior to attaching to my remaining dash pieces? Thanks for all your help
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post #12 of 15 Old 05-22-2016, 08:27 PM
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I saw the lines you are talking about but I didn't pay much attention to it. Often when they make veneer the equipment scratches the veneer but it's shallow enough it can be sanded out. I'm not there so I couldn't make a call as to whether it as shallow enough to sand or not. You just don't want to sand through the veneer.

If you are going to attempt to steam a scratch on veneer place a wet rag on the area and allow it to soak for a couple minutes and then stick a hot iron on it's hottest setting on the rag. What it would do is make the wood that has been pressed down in the groove swell up making it easier to sand. It will be just an unknown if this will cause the veneer to lift. All I can tell you is if there isn't already an adhesion problem with the veneer it won't hurt it. I've done this many times with plywood and veneered furniture without an issue. I don't think the stain would hinder this process very much however you may have to wash the stain off so you can re-sand the entire piece.
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post #13 of 15 Old 05-22-2016, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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I want to thank you for all the advice. I think tomorrow I will try and re-steam and then clamp for 24 hours. Worst case is I remove the veneer and start over.
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post #14 of 15 Old 05-25-2016, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Update - Of the three faces that had the indentation, I was able to sand out 2 of them. On the third I was able to sand out the indentation, but not the black marks and ended up sanding through the veneer. I removed that face and applied another piece. At least I had some extra veneer. Thanks for all your help.
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post #15 of 15 Old 05-26-2016, 01:41 AM
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I think the black marks was kind of a knot hole which went through it. I was expecting you to have to fill those spots. The pictures just didn't show if there was a void there or not.
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