Problem with staining red oak - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 Old 10-01-2013, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7
View Sommtr's Photo Album My Photos
Problem with staining red oak

I built a file cabinet using red oak. On the cabinet top and legs, I rounded the edges with a 1/8" round over bit. I sanded all parts with 150 grit sandpaper.
When I stained the wood (minwax oil), sections of the round over would not hold the stain. All the flat wood stained well. When I saw that the stain was not absorbing I re-stained the round over sections. I left the stain on for about 15 min, but when I wiped off the excess the stain still did not absorb.
I thought perhaps the round over bit was closing the wood grain. So on one of the boards I re-sanded the area with #150, but no luck. Any ideas on what is going on?
I should note there were no problems with the square or chamfered edges.

Last edited by Sommtr; 10-01-2013 at 03:54 PM. Reason: More info
Sommtr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 Old 10-01-2013, 04:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 140
View Gotspiccoli's Photo Album My Photos
try using a wood conditioner on the edges. I had a similiar problem on Chestnut and the wood conditioner worked wonders.
Gotspiccoli is offline  
post #3 of 9 Old 10-02-2013, 11:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Try sanding the radius with a little coarser sandpaper, maybe 80x. I think you are right that the router bit closed the grain of the wood.
Steve Neul is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 9 Old 10-03-2013, 05:13 PM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
I would use 100x or 120x on the radius. You don't want it too rough, or change the profile, just enough to open up the grain.






.

cabinetman is offline  
post #5 of 9 Old 10-12-2013, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7
View Sommtr's Photo Album My Photos
Wanted to give you guys an update on how things went. Here is what I did. I sanded all the round over edges that didn't take the stain with 100 grit sandpaper. Then I reapplied the stain to those areas.. However, once again the stain took in most areas but in other areas the wood appeared to repel the stain i.e. the stain literally moved away from some spots. To be clear, the 'repelled spots' are actually streaks about 1/32" wide that extend anywhere from 3-4 inches to the entire length of the board.
What I wound up doing was dabbing the affected areas with more stain while the first stain was still tacky. This helped a bit but not entirely. After the stain dried I used a touch-up marker which helped a little more (even then the wood repelled).
The file cabinet turned out acceptable but what a pain! This is the second time this has happened. The first was on a kitchen table. In both cases I used red oak, 1/8" round over bit, and dark stain. I still don't have any idea on what is going on and how to prevent for the future. Thanks for all your replies.
Sommtr is offline  
post #6 of 9 Old 10-12-2013, 07:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommtr View Post
Wanted to give you guys an update on how things went. Here is what I did. I sanded all the round over edges that didn't take the stain with 100 grit sandpaper. Then I reapplied the stain to those areas.. However, once again the stain took in most areas but in other areas the wood appeared to repel the stain i.e. the stain literally moved away from some spots. To be clear, the 'repelled spots' are actually streaks about 1/32" wide that extend anywhere from 3-4 inches to the entire length of the board.
What I wound up doing was dabbing the affected areas with more stain while the first stain was still tacky. This helped a bit but not entirely. After the stain dried I used a touch-up marker which helped a little more (even then the wood repelled).
The file cabinet turned out acceptable but what a pain! This is the second time this has happened. The first was on a kitchen table. In both cases I used red oak, 1/8" round over bit, and dark stain. I still don't have any idea on what is going on and how to prevent for the future. Thanks for all your replies.
It generally isn't a good idea to apply stain and let it dry to supplement the color. What happens is the stain dries on the surface and the stain itself doesn't have a good enough bonding agent to stay permanently. The finish will adhere to the stain instead of the wood and when the stain peals off will take the finish with it. The touch up markers are a good idea. They won't interfere with the adhesion of the finish. You can also mask off an area like that and use spray toners or dyes to color in a spot. Another alternative is to mix tinting color with the finish you are going to use to add color. If you are using an oil based enamel you can also use artist oil colors for touch up. If you are using a water based finish you can use artist acrylic paints to mix some touch up color.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #7 of 9 Old 10-13-2013, 04:35 PM
Senior Member
 
rcp612's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mount Vernon, Ohio
Posts: 268
View rcp612's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommtr View Post
Wanted to give you guys an update on how things went. Here is what I did. I sanded all the round over edges that didn't take the stain with 100 grit sandpaper. Then I reapplied the stain to those areas.. However, once again the stain took in most areas but in other areas the wood appeared to repel the stain i.e. the stain literally moved away from some spots. To be clear, the 'repelled spots' are actually streaks about 1/32" wide that extend anywhere from 3-4 inches to the entire length of the board.
What I wound up doing was dabbing the affected areas with more stain while the first stain was still tacky. This helped a bit but not entirely. After the stain dried I used a touch-up marker which helped a little more (even then the wood repelled).
The file cabinet turned out acceptable but what a pain! This is the second time this has happened. The first was on a kitchen table. In both cases I used red oak, 1/8" round over bit, and dark stain. I still don't have any idea on what is going on and how to prevent for the future. Thanks for all your replies.
After re-reading your post a couple times I think you're experiencing "medullary rays". I think all wood has these but, in my opinion, they are much more prominent in red oak. Especially quarter sawn red oak. If your lumber was plain sawn it is quite possible that some of it would actually be rift sawn. As such, when rounding the edges, you would be opening the edge to actual quarter sawn wood, and, with luck , the medullary rays would appear.
From my own experience with these rays, I haven't found a way to hide them. Many people look at them as beauty marks in the grain.
Maybe someone else knows ways of handling these. If, in fact, these are your problem.

Do like you always do,,,, get what you always get!!
rcp612 is offline  
post #8 of 9 Old 10-14-2013, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7
View Sommtr's Photo Album My Photos
The wood I used was plain sawn. The 'repelling spots' have occurred on both the long and short grain, although more so the long grain. The spots occurred predominantly at the edge of the curve I.e. just as the bit was turning vertical/horizontal. Edges that were chamfered took the stain well.
I have a suspicion that the round over bit I used is causing the problem. I don't know why though.....it is clean and sharp and didn't burn the wood. I'm going to perform a test on some left over wood using the same project bit (1/8") and a 1/4" round over bit. I'll get back as to the results.
Sommtr is offline  
post #9 of 9 Old 10-14-2013, 10:17 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommtr View Post
The wood I used was plain sawn. The 'repelling spots' have occurred on both the long and short grain, although more so the long grain. The spots occurred predominantly at the edge of the curve I.e. just as the bit was turning vertical/horizontal. Edges that were chamfered took the stain well.
I have a suspicion that the round over bit I used is causing the problem. I don't know why though.....it is clean and sharp and didn't burn the wood. I'm going to perform a test on some left over wood using the same project bit (1/8") and a 1/4" round over bit. I'll get back as to the results.
You might check your router bit and see if it is healing. That is when the back corner of the cutting edge hits the wood after being cut. You don't see that very often with router bits but it happens. If the back side of the cutting edge is hitting the wood it burnishes the wood.
Steve Neul is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Staining problem Bob Willing Wood Finishing 2 12-12-2011 12:25 PM
Hardwood floor staining problem. mot Wood Finishing 2 08-12-2011 03:56 AM
help! problem with staining Matt2000 Wood Finishing 6 03-26-2011 12:08 PM
Birch Staining Problem "Help Please" docfletcher Wood Finishing 4 03-09-2011 01:18 PM
Problem staining cherry wood... Woodcutter General Woodworking Discussion 9 03-06-2008 10:27 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome