Ok, help needed from those in the know. - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 46 Old 04-14-2012, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chitown cornfields
Posts: 1,110
View aardvark's Photo Album My Photos
Ok, help needed from those in the know.

I'm having issues.
I do hollow log furniture and generally use a water based poly...
BUT the issue I'm having is when I did some crack filling with epoxy on oak, the finish of the outlying overspill of the epoxy was very dark and desirable. A nice rich antique like finish of dark oak (BEAUTIFUL). Problem is, that the waterbased poly no where near matches that rich darkness.
So I tried two sample pieces.
One with a spray can lacquer base which was still lighter than the epoxy.
Two was a teak oil which is also a match to the lacquer based test in hue, but still lighter than the epoxy.
These are both clear and natural but all my attempts give differing coloring.

I'm finding my tests are failures. The epoxy coloring is what I'm after and I am kind of stuck without major sanding to feather the edges of the crack fills to where they are not seen. A near impossible possibility.

I'm considering a epoxy coating to match the filled cracks, but how do you thin epoxy for spraying (lacquer/other), and will it have the same effect as poured on epoxy (like a bar top coating). Will thinning for spay change it's coloring properties, compared to a standard poured on coating?

I'm stuck and confused guys!
aardvark is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 46 Old 04-14-2012, 12:43 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,023
View chemmy's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
I'm having issues.
I do hollow log furniture and generally use a water based poly...
BUT the issue I'm having is when I did some crack filling with epoxy on oak, the finish of the outlying overspill of the epoxy was very dark and desirable. A nice rich antique like finish of dark oak (BEAUTIFUL). Problem is, that the waterbased poly no where near matches that rich darkness.
So I tried two sample pieces.
One with a spray can lacquer base which was still lighter than the epoxy.
Two was a teak oil which is also a match to the lacquer based test in hue, but still lighter than the epoxy.
These are both clear and natural but all my attempts give differing coloring.

I'm finding my tests are failures. The epoxy coloring is what I'm after and I am kind of stuck without major sanding to feather the edges of the crack fills to where they are not seen. A near impossible possibility.

I'm considering a epoxy coating to match the filled cracks, but how do you thin epoxy for spraying (lacquer/other), and will it have the same effect as poured on epoxy (like a bar top coating). Will thinning for spay change it's coloring properties, compared to a standard poured on coating?

I'm stuck and confused guys!

Arrd, Arrd, Arrd, ....... how long have you been here now? now many times have you seen me and other post """always do samples before doing the project""" what is wrong with you ---- "anyway?' lol.

Ok, down to business!! dont thin the epoxy, pour a small area and use a rubber aqueegee to flow it around the surface, once the first areas is done move around to the remaining areas till all is coated, then take all the excess of you can to smooth it out as well as possible ok, let dry, resand 220 grit, don't sand through, and then apply your top coats, prefferably poly solvent base.

Lets see, am i missing anything??????


DO SAMPLES FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

Do a dime size area right next to one of your overladen fills to make sure the color will be a good match since it will be thinner than the poured resin, if not then get a amber dye that you can add a bit of color to at a time till you do have a close match, google marine epoxy dyes.

Let's see, is that it now??????


DO SAMPLES FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
chemmy is offline  
post #3 of 46 Old 04-14-2012, 01:41 AM
Log dog
 
Dominick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Northeast illinois
Posts: 7,935
View Dominick's Photo Album My Photos
I agree with chemmy Dan. But I'm a little lost on this one. I'm not sure what your doing over there.
Your like a mad scientist lol. Did you put a wipe on poly and then epoxy the checks. I think your freaking out. Still laughing. I've got to see this thing. Like chemmy said try a little area first, like the bottom to see how it goes.
Are you wanting to epoxy the whole slab? Or just the checks? Get pics.
Besides epoxy is thick. Thinning it will only alter the formula.

When it's rustic......it's rustic

Last edited by Dominick; 04-14-2012 at 01:44 AM.
Dominick is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 46 Old 04-14-2012, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chitown cornfields
Posts: 1,110
View aardvark's Photo Album My Photos
Chemmy
I've ""DONE SAMPLES !"" It's how I know I'm not happy with the others. I have cut off boards from the project for this kind of testing.
I'm not happy with anything but the epoxies deep coloring at this point.
I was thinking of spraying the epoxy, like I would with a car 2 part paint, since I don't want a thick coat. What I don't know is if there is the ability to thin this stuff for spray purposes. If not, then I squege it on.

Either way, this stuff is supposed to self level. Dom knows this log cut isn't flat level, so it will likely run to the center and out the rot hole (which is fine). Thinner coats are less waste, thus the spray thought.

Dom I sent you a few photos, of it finished on the edge sides/center. Epoxy crack fill is done and I have a day or two yet before I can start finish sanding the top.


I'm using Enviro Tek Lite, epoxy since it is what was used for the crack fills. It then will be a perfect match.
aardvark is offline  
post #5 of 46 Old 04-14-2012, 09:04 PM
Log dog
 
Dominick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Northeast illinois
Posts: 7,935
View Dominick's Photo Album My Photos
Hey Dan I just looked at the pics. It's hard to see on the photos what your trying to do. If you epoxy the whole thing it will look like plastic. IMO

When it's rustic......it's rustic
Dominick is offline  
post #6 of 46 Old 04-14-2012, 09:45 PM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
If you like the look of the epoxy, using it at it full consistency is the way to go. When I do bar and restaurant tables where the top has cracks, knots, or spaces, I first use the epoxy to fill the void, so when the full coat is poured on it doesn't leak out.

But when it comes time to do the topcoat, the edges, even if a live one (with bark), gets the full strength epoxy brushed on. Then the full pour is applied to the top surface and allowed to run off the edges. The edges being pre wetted, takes the pour fairly even...no bare spots. I use a brush on the edges.

So, my suggestion is to use the epoxy to fill the voids (mix up a sufficient amount for that). When that cures, coat the entire area with full strength. I would use a brush for that. You need no finish under or on top of epoxy.

You could likely spray the thickened epoxy with a chopper gun, but I think you'll get better more even results brushing. Try one as a sample.






.
cabinetman is offline  
post #7 of 46 Old 04-14-2012, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chitown cornfields
Posts: 1,110
View aardvark's Photo Album My Photos
I've done some epoxy pouring and get how it's done, and it sounds like I'm not hearing to thin it and spray it.
I think that pour on might be the method I will end up doing this with an epoxy squeege/brush scenario. I don't mind it running off the edge It just thins the top coat some and hopefully I won't need to go with a sanding grit to get it smooth. Hopefully the self leveling of epoxy will solve that. Biggest issue I have with epoxy is getting the fool bubbles out. When poured thick, (but I won't be pouring thick), it's near impossible. Trick is to pour thin, a propane torch to pop em and to keep the surface temp and epoxy temp over 70deg.
Im not into the high gloss plastic look either, (Dom) so it might be necessary later to steel wool later to bring the sheen down. Done that before with water based poly.
I'm after the color it brings out .

Thanks all.
I think I see a means to an end.

Last edited by aardvark; 04-14-2012 at 10:55 PM.
aardvark is offline  
post #8 of 46 Old 04-15-2012, 02:03 AM
Log dog
 
Dominick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Northeast illinois
Posts: 7,935
View Dominick's Photo Album My Photos
I'm not sure if you can dull the epoxy finish with steel wool or not.
But I agree with what C'man said.

When it's rustic......it's rustic
Dominick is offline  
post #9 of 46 Old 04-15-2012, 03:13 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,023
View chemmy's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
I've done some epoxy pouring and get how it's done, and it sounds like I'm not hearing to thin it and spray it.
I think that pour on might be the method I will end up doing this with an epoxy squeege/brush scenario. I don't mind it running off the edge It just thins the top coat some and hopefully I won't need to go with a sanding grit to get it smooth. Hopefully the self leveling of epoxy will solve that. Biggest issue I have with epoxy is getting the fool bubbles out. When poured thick, (but I won't be pouring thick), it's near impossible. Trick is to pour thin, a propane torch to pop em and to keep the surface temp and epoxy temp over 70deg.
Im not into the high gloss plastic look either, (Dom) so it might be necessary later to steel wool later to bring the sheen down. Done that before with water based poly.
I'm after the color it brings out .

Thanks all.
I think I see a means to an end.
Arrd, in the future try just putting a coat on that fills the pores of the wood and any depressions, etc., and then sqeegee off, let cure, then do your main pour ok?

This will seal the wood off so that any other pours on top will not be oozing air out of the wood. Old trick from imbedding things in acrylic, only then i just submerged the piece if small, waited till no more bubbles appeared and then took it out to finishing curing then embeded the next day. Takes a mixture of using AC first and then embedding in AP.
chemmy is offline  
post #10 of 46 Old 04-15-2012, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chitown cornfields
Posts: 1,110
View aardvark's Photo Album My Photos
Chemmy.
Thanks. Gotcha.
aardvark is offline  
post #11 of 46 Old 04-19-2012, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chitown cornfields
Posts: 1,110
View aardvark's Photo Album My Photos
Well. Initial results of the first pour of epoxy went....eh.....ok.
I love the coloring and the graining is standing out beautifully.
But the finish smoothness is compromised by sone settling into hairline cracking, and it's rough.
That is something I can fix after the thing hardens. I'll sand it and re-coat. I real don't want the high gloss so I may go after it with w satin poly at a later date.

Dom.
I sent you a few shots.
aardvark is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to aardvark For This Useful Post:
Dominick (04-19-2012)
post #12 of 46 Old 04-19-2012, 02:55 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,023
View chemmy's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
Well. Initial results of the first pour of epoxy went....eh.....ok.
I love the coloring and the graining is standing out beautifully.
But the finish smoothness is compromised by sone settling into hairline cracking, and it's rough.
That is something I can fix after the thing hardens. I'll sand it and re-coat. I real don't want the high gloss so I may go after it with w satin poly at a later date.

Dom.
I sent you a few shots.
Next time around try AP acrylic ok?If you like the amber look just add amber dye. Then you can final coat with 2K satin instead of oil modified poly.
chemmy is offline  
post #13 of 46 Old 04-19-2012, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chitown cornfields
Posts: 1,110
View aardvark's Photo Album My Photos
Chemmy
I needed to exact match the epoxy crack filling I had done, since some spills over onto the wood, no matter how well I taped it off. I sanded the surface of the log end with 36 grit, to try and remove the epoxy staining, but it gets impregnated deep. So the best option was to use the same (epoxy) substrate as the crack fill, to match perfectly....and it did. Perfect match in color, hue, etc. . I guess you could call it amber but it is actually a straight up clear.

I think I might have had a mess matching and adding amber dye in acrylic and trying to match the epoxy . It would have possibly shown a difference over what was already there. Maybe it would have matched, but I wasn't willing to experiment any more. Besides, this is working but will take additional coats. Maybe a total of 3 (hope not).
aardvark is offline  
post #14 of 46 Old 04-19-2012, 06:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,023
View chemmy's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
Chemmy
I needed to exact match the epoxy crack filling I had done, since some spills over onto the wood, no matter how well I taped it off. I sanded the surface of the log end with 36 grit, to try and remove the epoxy staining, but it gets impregnated deep. So the best option was to use the same (epoxy) substrate as the crack fill, to match perfectly....and it did. Perfect match in color, hue, etc. . I guess you could call it amber but it is actually a straight up clear.

I think I might have had a mess matching and adding amber dye in acrylic and trying to match the epoxy . It would have possibly shown a difference over what was already there. Maybe it would have matched, but I wasn't willing to experiment any more. Besides, this is working but will take additional coats. Maybe a total of 3 (hope not).
LOL

Sorry Ard, i didn't mean to use it on this jub, I know you had to continue whith what you'd used, remember? I was trying to guide you in that sense, lol

I meant the next ->job<- "after this one!!"
chemmy is offline  
post #15 of 46 Old 04-19-2012, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chitown cornfields
Posts: 1,110
View aardvark's Photo Album My Photos
Yeah, I'm generally not into Epoxy and usually spray water based poly.
This was a Oak 50" log slice (big cookie) that is shaped sorta like a cyprus slice, with a 15" rot hole down the center. It's 4" thick, but came from a 8" slice with a chainsaw. I quick dried it in 3 months, and expected cracks so bad I expected it to blow apart. So I attached a 2"x 2"x 3/16" angle iron rectangle frame to it, lag bolted it every 6" o.c. (which will remain in place). Sure enough it split bad, but the thing at least stayed together and straight.
Then I had to figure out how to fill cracks. Some as big as 1/2" wide. Epoxy.... It was nice because I put a blue jay feather in one area and a few coins denoting the logs approximate age (1887 and a 2011 for the cut down date)

It was an experiment that went bad/good/bad again/ok/ bad and now...it's getting there. It's to be a kitchen table top with a 60" glass top, on 1" standoffs.

I don't think there will be this kind of "next time" (thank God).
It's a very radical looking piece and the base is going to be on a 40" dia., maple hollow log cut into 2 "C" shapes. I better make a big buck out of this thing for the hours and cash I have in it, or there will be some crying in my beer, and it will end up in my dining room (not the worst thing).

Last edited by aardvark; 04-19-2012 at 06:59 PM.
aardvark is offline  
post #16 of 46 Old 04-19-2012, 06:40 PM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
So the best option was to use the same (epoxy) substrate as the crack fill, to match perfectly....and it did. Perfect match in color, hue, etc. . I guess you could call it amber but it is actually a straight up clear.
I use the same for crack/void filling as the topcoat.




.
cabinetman is offline  
post #17 of 46 Old 04-19-2012, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chitown cornfields
Posts: 1,110
View aardvark's Photo Album My Photos
Yeah, it worked fine, but not my normal approach.
aardvark is offline  
post #18 of 46 Old 04-21-2012, 06:17 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chitown cornfields
Posts: 1,110
View aardvark's Photo Album My Photos
2nd coat is on.
It's pretty but rough in the finish. I may have to wait for a bit and sand it down before doing a 3rd coat. At least I know the epoxy sands relatively easy compared to the oak below it.
I've already got over a gallon in this baby. Luckily the epoxy isn't overly expensive. About $65.oo a gallon.

If I was an impatient person (like I was in the past) this thing would end up in the fire pit out back.
God has changed my impatient attitude into stubbornness. I guess that's an advantage (wife might think different)?
aardvark is offline  
post #19 of 46 Old 04-21-2012, 09:37 AM
Rick Mosher
 
Rick Mosher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 1,010
View Rick Mosher's Photo Album My Photos
Boat guys do this stuff all the time and are really good at it. This is a link to a new technique they have developed. I tried it on some touch up work on polyester that I had to do and it rocks!
Rick Mosher is offline  
post #20 of 46 Old 04-21-2012, 10:47 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,023
View chemmy's Photo Album My Photos
Good article Rick

I was using similiar with my acrylic casting resins back in the late 70's only it was a linear mylar film instead, but the same glass smooth reults on my top poured surfaces etc..
Attached Images
 
chemmy is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help needed please oakeyz Power Tools & Machinery 1 04-01-2010 10:15 AM
Some Help Needed Bigred15 Off Topic 4 06-14-2009 12:00 AM
Jig needed... Lucas54 Tips, Tricks, & Homemade Jigs 4 04-07-2009 08:32 AM
help needed PebbleZ General Woodworking Discussion 5 05-27-2008 01:52 AM
Help Needed moberdan Woodturning 9 10-25-2007 12:36 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome