Need opinions on cabinet door repair - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 18 Old 07-22-2020, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Need opinions on cabinet door repair

The attached photos indicate the problem to solve.

The cabinets were produced in 2014 by Yorktowne Cabinets who have been around for decades supplying kitchen cabinets to builders on a wholesale basis.

Some notes:
  1. The cabinet substrate is maple.
  2. Yorktowne described the finish color as "Java".
  3. I would describe the finish as satin but am not sure exactly what type of finish it is. Certainly it is sprayed and unfortunately very thin and/or not very durable.
  4. Yorktowne no longer offers the finish on their cabinets, and is will not provide a can of the original stain or any information regarding the composition of the stain.
The damage is from normal use over a 6 year period and is probably due to the fact that this is a roll-out trash base. My opinion is that the clear coat finish has worn out enough to allow the deterioration of the stain.

I am interested in opinions on how to fix the problem.

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 18 Old 07-22-2020, 12:15 PM
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welcome to the forum.
do you have any experience of finishes, stains and matching stains ??
how about tools for applying finishes.

one of the tools that is available is a "color wheel" to match stains.
on small jobs, once the desired color is achieved, I would apply it with an
artist's airbrush. of course this is a bit advanced for the average person.
a foam brush, cloth or regular brush can be used after much practice.
or - if this piece means a lot to you and you want it done right, hire a
professional to do it for you.
Note: the stain on your cabinets could be oil based, water based, transtint dye,
or any number of proprietary stain/finish that a commercial shop would use.
matching what you have will be a challenge.

Need opinions on cabinet door repair-finishers-color-wheel.jpg

Need opinions on cabinet door repair-finishers-color.jpg

.

there is no educational alternative to having a front row seat in the School of Hard Knocks.

Last edited by John Smith_inFL; 07-22-2020 at 12:20 PM.
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post #3 of 18 Old 07-22-2020, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks John,

I have a moderate amount of experience finishing wood but don't have access to an airbrush.

I am interested in opinions about exactly how to prepare the affected area before application of a stain, what type of stain should be used (perhaps a gel), how to determine the nature of the existing finish, and how best to match the existing finish?

I also have scrap pieces left over that can be used to experiment with.
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post #4 of 18 Old 07-22-2020, 12:50 PM
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A penetrating type stain won't .....

Oil based type stains that seep into the pores of the wood won't work. That's because the existing finish is pretty much still there. What you want is a fast drying toner, like lacquer. This can be applied with a touch up spray gun for small areas from Harbor Freight or auto supply stores. some times they come in a 2 gun combo kit for a relatively cheap price < $60.00.


You also get them in aerosol cans to save even more money:
https://www.shellac.net/aerosol_toners.html
Check out this color:
M100-0209
Extra Dark Walnut




Then after you get the desired color use a clear top coat for protection. A fast drying enamel or poly will be more durable than lacquer, but check it first for compatibility. Always make test samples when doing finish work!


If you want to mix your own toner this may be helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC1cHxUf8kc




The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 07-22-2020 at 01:07 PM.
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post #5 of 18 Old 07-22-2020, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks woodnthings

Any opinion on a gel stain?
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post #6 of 18 Old 07-22-2020, 06:07 PM
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No experience with gel stains .....

There are so many types of "stains"... oil base, water based, gels, dyes, pigment, etc. but I recommended a toner which is a mix of finish coating and solvents, and drying agents and dyes. It's fast drying so it will bond to the existing finish without dissolving it. It needs to go on in several coats so it will be the right shade. Shade is like the range between black and white ..."shades of grey" It does not mean "color" which is the name of the toner, like Dark Walnut ....


If it were raw unfinished wood then any type of stain would work, but it ain't.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #7 of 18 Old 07-22-2020, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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I watched the video and am very tempted to try it. My hesitation is matching the existing color. Iím certain I must blend a color as the finish has a lot of solids in a very dark brown with a lighter brown for accents. Iím guessing the sequence would be to apply the darker brown first and highlight another coat with the lighter brown?
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post #8 of 18 Old 07-23-2020, 12:18 PM
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I'd probably start with a dye stain a slightly lighter color, then bring the toner, finish with some rattle can lacquer.

Here is a good source for toners.

Robert
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post #9 of 18 Old 07-23-2020, 12:41 PM
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You have to watch as some clear coats are tinted. I have furniture finished this way. I have end tables finished this way. The wife spilled nail polish remover on the table. If she had left it it might have recovered but she tried to clean it off, melting the finsh.

My furniture finisher at work said he would have to experiment to find out what was used to match it..
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post #10 of 18 Old 07-23-2020, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Rebelwork makes a good point. I hadn’t thought about the possibility the finish coat was tinted but the more I look at the damage, the more I think that may be the case. What solvent could I use to try to remove just the finish coat on a scrap of wood I have?

Last edited by Drewski; 07-23-2020 at 08:01 PM.
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post #11 of 18 Old 07-24-2020, 12:22 AM
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1st, Youll never be able to match the factory stain. Rebel is prolly right about the stain being mixed into a clear. So the best you can hope for is for something close to matching the existing . My advice is to use a aerosol toner/stain close to the original stain. Id fist clean the surface with something like wax wash then us the aerosol. Do very light passes work you way into a close match. heres a link to a place I like. Its Mohawk finishes you might be able to find something closer to you.

Good luck

https://woodrepairproducts.com/produ...stain-aerosol/

https://woodrepairproducts.com/product/final-finish/

Last edited by sancho57; 07-24-2020 at 12:24 AM.
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post #12 of 18 Old 07-24-2020, 09:17 AM
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One lesson I have learned is to avoid Yorktowne Cabinets. I am surprised that they won't stand behind their product - a 5 or 6 year old cabinet set.

The warranties on their website say: "Yorktowne warrants its [TA: varies by cabinet family name] cabinetry to be free of defects in material and/or workmanship under normal residential usage to the original purchaser for as long as they own their home. ... "

They exclude normal wear and tear, but you can argue whether this level of wear is "normal" considering how short a time you've owned the cabinet set.

If you can't get support from the local retailer, consider escalating the issue to their management or executives to see what can be done to fix the problem.
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post #13 of 18 Old 07-24-2020, 09:31 AM
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Understanding wood refinishing and colors .....

This link is from the site I posted above:
https://www.shellac.net/color-theory...odworkers.html


It's a long read, but very informative.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #14 of 18 Old 07-24-2020, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewski View Post
Thanks John,

I have a moderate amount of experience finishing wood but don't have access to an airbrush.

I am interested in opinions about exactly how to prepare the affected area before application of a stain, what type of stain should be used (perhaps a gel), how to determine the nature of the existing finish, and how best to match the existing finish?

I also have scrap pieces left over that can be used to experiment with.

If you have a compressor, there are a number of cheap air brushes on the market. Useful for many touchup and small jobs.


George
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post #15 of 18 Old 07-24-2020, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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I called Yorktowne and a local distributor. Their corporate office declined to help citing "normal wear". The local distributor tried through their channels and also failed. I even asked just for some guidance on the exact spec for the finish and no dice. I guess it's time to get more aggressive.

Last edited by Drewski; 07-24-2020 at 11:52 AM.
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post #16 of 18 Old 07-24-2020, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
If you have a compressor.....

Wish I did....
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post #17 of 18 Old 07-24-2020, 01:24 PM
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Remove the knobs .....

Use 0000 steel wool to rough up the area around the wear marks and then use the Mohawk toners i posted above and be done with it. You are overthinking this as is everyone else who is suggesting more complex methods of repair ...... this site:
https://www.shellac.net/aerosol_toners.html

Practice on an non-visible area to match the color......

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #18 of 18 Old 07-24-2020, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Use 0000 steel wool to rough up the area around the wear marks and then use the Mohawk toners i posted above and be done with it. You are overthinking this as is everyone else who is suggesting more complex methods of repair ...... this site:
https://www.shellac.net/aerosol_toners.html

Practice on an non-visible area to match the color......
That is the path I am on. I located a local Mohawk dealer who claims they can analyze a sample of the finish I have to get me in the color range. Is that a reasonable claim?
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