Mineral Spirits Residue - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 04-10-2017, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Mineral Spirits Residue

I want to clean a piece of furniture with mineral spirits and then use a water based top coat.

Is there any risk of residue being left from the mineral spirits that could cause an adhesion problem?

Thanks.

Gary
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post #2 of 34 Old 04-10-2017, 12:21 PM
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Never has been a problem for me, just let it dry real good before top coating
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post #3 of 34 Old 04-10-2017, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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Never has been a problem for me, just let it dry real good before top coating
Thanks. I assume using water based top coats has been okay.

Gary
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post #4 of 34 Old 04-10-2017, 02:49 PM
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It will work, when working with light colored woods sometimes is I suspect I might have misses a spot of glue I will wet the whole surface with mineral spirits to see any glue spots and I have used Minwax Polyacylic and it came out fine
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post #5 of 34 Old 04-10-2017, 03:26 PM
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I want to clean a piece of furniture with mineral spirits and then use a water based top coat.

Is there any risk of residue being left from the mineral spirits that could cause an adhesion problem?

Thanks.

Gary
Naptha is a better alternative. It cleans better and dries faster.

Matching colors on different substrates is easy. All it takes is patience and beer.
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post #6 of 34 Old 04-10-2017, 04:16 PM
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I 2nd the naphtha!
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post #7 of 34 Old 04-10-2017, 10:09 PM
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If you mean you want to clean a finished piece of furniture and use a waterborne finish then that presents a whole bunch of problems. A waterborne won't just adhere to a lot of finishes. It's kind of like the dilemma of painting an oil based enamel with latex paint. It can be done but you have to prime the oil based enamel with an oil based primer. Likewise with the waterborne clear coat, it can be done but you may need to seal the existing finish with Zinsser Sealcoat. The Sealcoat will bond to most finishes and the waterborne clear coat will bond to the Sealcoat.
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post #8 of 34 Old 04-11-2017, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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If you mean you want to clean a finished piece of furniture and use a waterborne finish then that presents a whole bunch of problems. A waterborne won't just adhere to a lot of finishes. It's kind of like the dilemma of painting an oil based enamel with latex paint. It can be done but you have to prime the oil based enamel with an oil based primer. Likewise with the waterborne clear coat, it can be done but you may need to seal the existing finish with Zinsser Sealcoat. The Sealcoat will bond to most finishes and the waterborne clear coat will bond to the Sealcoat.
Steve lots of food for thought in your feedback. This is not as simple as I expected which is why I asked. I need to plan this process better.

Gary
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post #9 of 34 Old 04-11-2017, 08:49 AM
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Steve lots of food for thought in your feedback. This is not as simple as I expected which is why I asked. I need to plan this process better.

Gary
If all your wanting to do is clean the furniture and apply a topcoat, all you have to do is first wipe the piece down with Naptha as that will remove all the oils and contaminates from the piece. Then simply wipe the piece down with a deglosser and a lint free rag. You can purchase a deglosser from Lowes near the Acetone and Mineral Spirits section......follow the instructions on the bottle. After 15 minutes you can apply the water base topcoat and your done.

The deglosser will "etch" the finish and promote adhesion without causing damage to the finish underneath. Ive done this plenty of times. The deglosser works especially great on carvings and hard to sand areas.

Matching colors on different substrates is easy. All it takes is patience and beer.
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post #10 of 34 Old 04-11-2017, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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If all your wanting to do is clean the furniture and apply a topcoat, all you have to do is first wipe the piece down with Naptha as that will remove all the oils and contaminates from the piece. Then simply wipe the piece down with a deglosser and a lint free rag. You can purchase a deglosser from Lowes near the Acetone and Mineral Spirits section......follow the instructions on the bottle. After 15 minutes you can apply the water base topcoat and your done.

The deglosser will "etch" the finish and promote adhesion without causing damage to the finish underneath. Ive done this plenty of times. The deglosser works especially great on carvings and hard to sand areas.
Thank you. I learn something every time I ask a question which is exactly why I keep asking. Deglossing is a new trick for me to use. Nice to know.

Gary
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post #11 of 34 Old 04-11-2017, 09:17 AM
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Thank you. I learn something every time I ask a question which is exactly why I keep asking. Deglossing is a new trick for me to use. Nice to know.

Gary
The problem is deglossers don't do the job they claim. You would be better off cleaning the furniture with a wax and grease remover and scuff sanding the old finish with 220 paper. I still don't agree you can directly put a waterborne over anything but the same waterborne. You risk the finish pealing off in sheets.
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post #12 of 34 Old 04-11-2017, 10:09 AM
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I used to use mineral spirits before finishing, but found it always left the wood "oily". not a big deal if you are doing an oil based finish, but sometimes my water based finishes would bubble up in spots. I now use el cheapo rubbing alcohol to do final clean, no issue with residue or odor. I use Rustoleum Pro Finisher water based poly for floors for most projects.

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post #13 of 34 Old 04-11-2017, 10:58 AM
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The problem is deglossers don't do the job they claim. You would be better off cleaning the furniture with a wax and grease remover and scuff sanding the old finish with 220 paper. I still don't agree you can directly put a waterborne over anything but the same waterborne. You risk the finish pealing off in sheets.
I started using a deglosser years ago. Much easier. The problem with sanding with sand paper while wanting to recoat an existing finish is your more liable to occasionally sand through corners, high areas on carvings (if there are any), etc.....then that opens another can of worms and touchup/repair is needed to be done.

If the two are uncatalyzed materials, then GAF should be good to go.....which in this case Im sure they are uncatalyzed. You can spray a water born topcoat over lacquer and have great adhesion as long as the necessary steps are taken before applying the topcoat, which is in any case, sanding. Ive done over a dozen refinishes on kitchen cabinets using deglosser and have not had any problems. Im talking some of the refinishes are a little over 2 years old now. A deglosser will be good enough to use in this instance.

Matching colors on different substrates is easy. All it takes is patience and beer.

Last edited by ColorStylist; 04-11-2017 at 11:02 AM.
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post #14 of 34 Old 04-11-2017, 10:33 PM
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I started using a deglosser years ago. Much easier. The problem with sanding with sand paper while wanting to recoat an existing finish is your more liable to occasionally sand through corners, high areas on carvings (if there are any), etc.....then that opens another can of worms and touchup/repair is needed to be done.

If the two are uncatalyzed materials, then GAF should be good to go.....which in this case Im sure they are uncatalyzed. You can spray a water born topcoat over lacquer and have great adhesion as long as the necessary steps are taken before applying the topcoat, which is in any case, sanding. Ive done over a dozen refinishes on kitchen cabinets using deglosser and have not had any problems. Im talking some of the refinishes are a little over 2 years old now. A deglosser will be good enough to use in this instance.
At a time when I had a refinishing shop within the city limits of Dallas I had the fire marshal all over me for using lacquer. They wanted me to double the sheetrock on the walls, install an alarm system, install a sprinkler system, all in a rented building. I was forced to start using waterborne finishes and it was terrible. No matter what I did the finish wouldn't adhere to anything I was trying to touch up. I think I used every deglosser on the market. You couldn't see or feel any difference in the finish. It took sanding for the finish would bond at all. Carvings are not handled that much to be an issue, it's the edges of a table top which show up first. Anyway I finally solved the problem. I moved my shop out of Dallas. Now after all these years it looks like the environmentalists are going to move my shop out of business. I was hoping I might finish my career first.
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post #15 of 34 Old 04-12-2017, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
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I used to use mineral spirits before finishing, but found it always left the wood "oily". not a big deal if you are doing an oil based finish, but sometimes my water based finishes would bubble up in spots. I now use el cheapo rubbing alcohol to do final clean, no issue with residue or odor. I use Rustoleum Pro Finisher water based poly for floors for most projects.
Thanks Scott I will try the rubbing alcohol approach since I have some in the workshop.

Gary
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post #16 of 34 Old 04-12-2017, 02:06 PM
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At a time when I had a refinishing shop within the city limits of Dallas I had the fire marshal all over me for using lacquer. They wanted me to double the sheetrock on the walls, install an alarm system, install a sprinkler system, all in a rented building. I was forced to start using waterborne finishes and it was terrible. No matter what I did the finish wouldn't adhere to anything I was trying to touch up. I think I used every deglosser on the market. You couldn't see or feel any difference in the finish. It took sanding for the finish would bond at all. Carvings are not handled that much to be an issue, it's the edges of a table top which show up first. Anyway I finally solved the problem. I moved my shop out of Dallas. Now after all these years it looks like the environmentalists are going to move my shop out of business. I was hoping I might finish my career first.
Why, VOC's???

When I use water base, or look for using a low VOC system, I now use SAYERLACK instead of the Sherwin Williams Kem Aqua stuff. Sayerlack sprays just like lacquer and does not have that milky look like most waterbourne topcoats have. I promise you I have used this product over lacquer with no problems at all.

I did a small, narrow 5 drawer chest for the VP of marketing to promote Sayerlack when we first acquired that company. I simply used a deglosser and shot the Sayerlack straight over the previous NC lacquer. We did a cross hatch test to test the adhesion and it past with a high rating of 4....5 being the highest you can get. That was 3 years ago and it still looks as it did the day I shot it.

Matching colors on different substrates is easy. All it takes is patience and beer.
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post #17 of 34 Old 04-12-2017, 11:17 PM
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Why, VOC's???

When I use water base, or look for using a low VOC system, I now use SAYERLACK instead of the Sherwin Williams Kem Aqua stuff. Sayerlack sprays just like lacquer and does not have that milky look like most waterbourne topcoats have. I promise you I have used this product over lacquer with no problems at all.

I did a small, narrow 5 drawer chest for the VP of marketing to promote Sayerlack when we first acquired that company. I simply used a deglosser and shot the Sayerlack straight over the previous NC lacquer. We did a cross hatch test to test the adhesion and it past with a high rating of 4....5 being the highest you can get. That was 3 years ago and it still looks as it did the day I shot it.
Why not VOC's. The stuff is dependable and easy to work with. While I haven't used the Sayerlack I can never believe it is as easy to work with as lacquers. It's at least going to raise the grain of the wood and I bet it takes more coats than lacquer.
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post #18 of 34 Old 04-13-2017, 11:56 AM
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Why not VOC's. The stuff is dependable and easy to work with. While I haven't used the Sayerlack I can never believe it is as easy to work with as lacquers. It's at least going to raise the grain of the wood and I bet it takes more coats than lacquer.
I meant is VOC's the reason environmentalists are trying to run you out???

Believe it or not, I can run a 5 step water based system (dye stain, wipe stain, 2 sealer coats, and a topcoat) and get the same results as a 5 step NC system.

Now when I have to formulate for California factories, I go with Sayerlack because of getting around VOC regulations. Technology has come a long way in water systems. They even make a 2 part water urethane that you cant tell the difference between once its dry. It almost looks like an epoxy coating.

Dont get me wrong, Im alot more comfortable with solvent systems, but the water of today is not too bad.

Matching colors on different substrates is easy. All it takes is patience and beer.
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post #19 of 34 Old 04-13-2017, 09:58 PM
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I meant is VOC's the reason environmentalists are trying to run you out???

Believe it or not, I can run a 5 step water based system (dye stain, wipe stain, 2 sealer coats, and a topcoat) and get the same results as a 5 step NC system.

Now when I have to formulate for California factories, I go with Sayerlack because of getting around VOC regulations. Technology has come a long way in water systems. They even make a 2 part water urethane that you cant tell the difference between once its dry. It almost looks like an epoxy coating.

Dont get me wrong, Im alot more comfortable with solvent systems, but the water of today is not too bad.
All of these environmental coatings are so much more labor intensive and troublesome I'm just not going there. I will stop finishing when that is all that is available.
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post #20 of 34 Old 04-13-2017, 11:56 PM
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All of these environmental coatings are so much more labor intensive and troublesome I'm just not going there. I will stop finishing when that is all that is available.
If I wasnt subjected to have to use waterbourne systems from time to time because of my line of work, I would probably feel the same way. However, since I have to use them from time to time, you would be surprised how easy they are to use, and the results you can get. No one ever would have thought a water based paint could be applied on automobiles many years ago. A friend of mine says he actually likes it better than applying base coat/clear. I would be scared to death to go back painting cars and starting out with a waterbourne system.

Matching colors on different substrates is easy. All it takes is patience and beer.
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