Does type of wood matter? - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 25 Old 10-31-2014, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
This is a product I use all the time. It is cut with alcohol. You can clearly smell the denatured alcohol in it. I don't see how there can be an oil in it, you can topcoat over it within a couple minutes or even add it to lacquers as a toner.
Steve, are you sure your talking about a penetrating stain??? I use it too, but I never used alcohol to cut a penetrating stain. Penetrating stains are oil based products. I dont see where alcohol is recommended:

Copy and Pasted............

Mohawk Finishing Products
Division of RPM Wood Finishes Group, Inc.

Product Data Sheet

Penetrating Oil Stain

Specifications:

Directions: Surface must be clean, dry and wax-free. Finish sand with 150 to 180 grit paper for desired result. Remove sanding dust with tack cloth or vacuum. Penetrating Oil Stain may be brushed, wiped or spray applied (approximately 30-35 psi). Stain should be applied with the grain in a wet uniform consistency. Allow the stain to penetrate; then wipe off excess stain with a lint free cloth. Penetrating Oil Stain can be reduced with M650-004 Mohawk Naphtha or M650-230 Mohawk Mineral Spirits to adjust color strength. Use M650-230 Mohawk Mineral Spirits for slower dry and better workability if needed. Allow stain to dry 1 – 2 hours before sealing or topcoating. Clean up with M650-9008 Mohawk Clean Up Solvent, M650-004 Mohawk Naphtha or M650-230 Mohawk Mineral Spirits.

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/cata...asp?ictnbr=181

Thats also why I said earlier that a washcoat sealer applied first will not allow a penetraing stain to work properly.

Last edited by RandyReed; 10-31-2014 at 03:22 PM.
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post #22 of 25 Old 10-31-2014, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyReed View Post
Steve, are you sure your talking about a penetrating stain??? I use it too, but I never used alcohol to cut a penetrating stain. Penetrating stains are oil based products. I dont see where alcohol is recommended:

Copy and Pasted............

Mohawk Finishing Products
Division of RPM Wood Finishes Group, Inc.

Product Data Sheet

Penetrating Oil Stain

Specifications:

Directions: Surface must be clean, dry and wax-free. Finish sand with 150 to 180 grit paper for desired result. Remove sanding dust with tack cloth or vacuum. Penetrating Oil Stain may be brushed, wiped or spray applied (approximately 30-35 psi). Stain should be applied with the grain in a wet uniform consistency. Allow the stain to penetrate; then wipe off excess stain with a lint free cloth. Penetrating Oil Stain can be reduced with M650-004 Mohawk Naphtha or M650-230 Mohawk Mineral Spirits to adjust color strength. Use M650-230 Mohawk Mineral Spirits for slower dry and better workability if needed. Allow stain to dry 1 – 2 hours before sealing or topcoating. Clean up with M650-9008 Mohawk Clean Up Solvent, M650-004 Mohawk Naphtha or M650-230 Mohawk Mineral Spirits.

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/cata...asp?ictnbr=181

Thats also why I said earlier that a washcoat sealer applied first will not allow a penetraing stain to work properly.
No Randy, the ultra penetrating stain is a NGR stain. It's much the same product Star Finishing Products sold as No Sand Stain. It's advertised as a dye. Product Overview

A truly new dye stain that promises superior transparent qualities found only in dye stains and excellent lightfastness. Will not bleed into top coat finishes. May be brushed, wiped or sprayed directly on wood or mixed in lacquer for toning. Colors may be intermixed to acquire additional shades. Mohawk's Ultra™ Penetrating Stain offers the user the best combined characteristics of water, alcohol, or lacquer type dyes. Custom match colors are also available with minimum order of 5 gallons. Ultra™ Penetrating Stain Reducer and Ultra™ Penetrating Stain Retarder are available.
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post #23 of 25 Old 11-01-2014, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
No Randy, the ultra penetrating stain is a NGR stain. It's much the same product Star Finishing Products sold as No Sand Stain. It's advertised as a dye. Product Overview

A truly new dye stain that promises superior transparent qualities found only in dye stains and excellent lightfastness. Will not bleed into top coat finishes. May be brushed, wiped or sprayed directly on wood or mixed in lacquer for toning. Colors may be intermixed to acquire additional shades. Mohawk's Ultra™ Penetrating Stain offers the user the best combined characteristics of water, alcohol, or lacquer type dyes. Custom match colors are also available with minimum order of 5 gallons. Ultra™ Penetrating Stain Reducer and Ultra™ Penetrating Stain Retarder are available.
Ah, I didnt think we was talking about the same product!

The only reason the ultra is called a penetrating stain is because its main solvent is ethanol and contains water, which as I said earlier, will bust the grain and not have the clean look that the picture has posted by the OP.

This "penetrating stain" will not penetrate as it should if applied directly over a clear coat of any kind. It will act just like a pad stain when applied on any preconditioner, washcoat, or sealer.

A true dye stain is the way to go to get that look.

Last edited by RandyReed; 11-01-2014 at 02:33 AM.
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post #24 of 25 Old 11-01-2014, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyReed View Post
Ah, I didnt think we was talking about the same product!

The only reason the ultra is called a penetrating stain is because its main solvent is ethanol and contains water, which as I said earlier, will bust the grain and not have the clean look that the picture has posted by the OP.

This "penetrating stain" will not penetrate as it should if applied directly over a clear coat of any kind. It will act just like a pad stain when applied on any preconditioner, washcoat, or sealer.

A true dye stain is the way to go to get that look.
Randy, the ultra penetrating stain will penetrate the wood and give the appearance in the pictures. It penetrates the wood so well you can't wash very much of it off if you get the wrong color. It colors like ink. I used to refinish a lot of mahogany furniture and used the stain for the color. Most of the oil stains I attempted to use at the time gave the wood a purple look to it so I used the dye instead. The only time I put this stain over a clear coat is for use as a toner.
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post #25 of 25 Old 11-01-2014, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Randy, the ultra penetrating stain will penetrate the wood and give the appearance in the pictures. It penetrates the wood so well you can't wash very much of it off if you get the wrong color. It colors like ink. I used to refinish a lot of mahogany furniture and used the stain for the color. Most of the oil stains I attempted to use at the time gave the wood a purple look to it so I used the dye instead. The only time I put this stain over a clear coat is for use as a toner.
Yes, I know it will penetrate the wood, but the penetrating stain will also tick the grain. The table top in the picture has no grain ticking. If you spray that penetrating stain on one end and spray an acetone based dye stain on the other, you will see what Im talking about. It will do it especially bad on mahogany. You can also spray an acetone based dye stain on maple and it will not blotch the wood so there is no need to apply a preconditioner. Thats how I apply stains on maple for factories that do not want or can not precondition the wood before being ran on their finishing line.

Your right about spraying that penetrating stain over a wood that has a clear coat or a washcoat already applied to it as it would be similar to a toner look. No one should spray a penetrating stain over a sealed wood as it would be defeating the purpose of using a penetrating stain.

Last edited by RandyReed; 11-01-2014 at 05:42 PM.
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