Table saw kick back /pics - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 05-30-2013, 11:15 PM Thread Starter
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Table saw kick back /pics

Do not do this in the shop
My first kick back on a table saw. I will be 57 tomorrow with many hours with tools of all kinds, this was a first. Just ripping a simple cut on quarter inch plywood when a guy pulled up at the shop and honked. Looked up right and the end of the cut and BAM.
The piece of plywood got me, not the blade.

Well yeah, the black tape as we all know it the best first aid. I did finish cutting the bottoms for four drawers, after running around screaming like a little gurl.
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post #2 of 30 Old 05-30-2013, 11:19 PM
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Owwwwwww. Glad your semi ok

The tools don't make the craftsman....
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post #3 of 30 Old 05-30-2013, 11:26 PM
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I'd consider this a lucky outcome. As a 24 year safety guy, I've seen much worse. Heres to wishing you a speedy recovery...

Mark

Mark

"Measuring is the enemy of accuracy." Chris Schwartz
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post #4 of 30 Old 05-31-2013, 09:54 PM
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When cutting thin stuff like that I generally jack the blade up a bit so that I can feed with my thumb UNDER the workpiece...

If stuff gets 'kinked' and a problem is happening - I can simply pick UP on the workpiece to clear the blade and prevent any kickbacks or other 'problems'.

For me - I got one pinky hooked over the edge of the fence and one thumb under the thin workpiece on my right hand when cutting...
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post #5 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 07:28 AM
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Things like this usually happen with "simple cuts".
Just glad your fingers didn't go through the blade.

Tony B



Retired woodworker, amongst other things, Sold full time cruising boat and now full time cruising in RV. Currently in Somerville, Tx
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post #6 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnealWoodworking View Post
When cutting thin stuff like that I generally jack the blade up a bit so that I can feed with my thumb UNDER the workpiece...

If stuff gets 'kinked' and a problem is happening - I can simply pick UP on the workpiece to clear the blade and prevent any kickbacks or other 'problems'.

For me - I got one pinky hooked over the edge of the fence and one thumb under the thin workpiece on my right hand when cutting...
IMO, that has to be one of the most dangerous things you could do. That is just begging for a kickback. The piece should be held down to the table and guided firmly against the fence until it has cleared past the blade.






.

Last edited by cabinetman; 06-02-2013 at 07:47 AM. Reason: Punctuation
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post #7 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 07:53 AM
where's my table saw?
 
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this may help prevent future kickbacks

http://www.amazon.com/Micro-Jig-Kerf-SteelPRO-Splitter/dp/B003E623C0
I started using a splitter again, which I removed for a long while years ago.... The splitter will retain the piece against the fence at the rear of the blade. It will not hold a thin piece down on the table....that's up to you. As suggested a higher blade height will also help. As the piece rotated away from the fence at the rear it climbed up and over the blade which propelled it toward you.

Guests and family have been firmly warned not enter the shop during operations which may distract or startle the "owner" and result in an accident.

hope you heal quickly!

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 06-02-2013 at 01:05 PM.
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post #8 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 05:28 PM
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I had my first kickback event when my push stick came off a very small piece. It made it through the sheetrock behind me. I had not seen a sheet "climb" like yours except on the one demo a member did. That is scary right there.
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post #9 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
IMO, that has to be one of the most dangerous things you could do. That is just begging for a kickback. The piece should be held down to the table and guided firmly against the fence until it has cleared past the blade.



.

And after 20 someodd years of this - I STILL got ALL my digits in place...

Do YOU???


I KNOW what I am doing from experience...
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post #10 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 07:36 PM
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And after 20 someodd years of this - I STILL got ALL my digits in place...

Do YOU???


I KNOW what I am doing from experience...
After 40 some odd years working daily...I do have all my digits. How about that!! Just because you didn't lose a finger or three makes it right or wise to suggest a method that is inherently dangerous.







.
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post #11 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnealWoodworking View Post
When cutting thin stuff like that I generally jack the blade up a bit so that I can feed with my thumb UNDER the workpiece...

If stuff gets 'kinked' and a problem is happening - I can simply pick UP on the workpiece to clear the blade and prevent any kickbacks or other 'problems'.

For me - I got one pinky hooked over the edge of the fence and one thumb under the thin workpiece on my right hand when cutting...
You know what. No matter how much you think you can stop a kick back or other problem it just isn't possible if the action already started. It just happens way to fast and with much more force than you think. If you gotten away with it already you were just lucky.

Hooking your finger over the fence does nothing but make sure you know where the fence is. If something goes wrong it will very likely rip your finger right off the fence.
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post #12 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnealWoodworking View Post
And after 20 someodd years of this - I STILL got ALL my digits in place...

Do YOU???


I KNOW what I am doing from experience...
Yeah I could say that also but by 25 years I couldn't. Don't think just because I lost a finger that I'm less safe then you. You've just been lucky up until now.

That last quote of yours is exactly what everyone says until the day it happens to you.

Last edited by rrbrown; 06-02-2013 at 07:54 PM.
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post #13 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 09:17 PM
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I've learned a bit about kickback here

When you understand the HOW and WHY of kickback, you know what to expect. I also primarily use a table saw rated at 3 HP or so, but I can still stall it ....if need be. I would not be able to stall my 5 HP Powermatic and therefore, I give it a lot of respect.

I don't think a blanket statement about what is "unsafe", by anyone here regardless of the number of years of experience, especially and including rrbrown's 25 years, can be applied to a procedure. It all depends on the specific operation, the saw, the fence, the operator's skill and familiarity with that operation etc. Physics still plays a major role in HOW and WHY things happen when wood enters the table saw blade and is pushed along the fence.. If you understand the physics of the tool and wood movement, you will be a much safer operator.

A "skilled" operator can obviously do things more safely based on years of experience, than a novice. Therefore we can't gear all our advice to here to the novice and what may happen if...... just my opinion. If anyone here wants to perform a certain operation as recommended, they do so at their own risk. Power tools are dangerous. I have 3 very good friends who have lost some portion of their fingers in woodworking equipment. It was always because of "operator error", working late, tired, anxious to complete the job, took a shortcut, no safety guard, etc.

My advice, take your time, think it through, use the safety equipment and if it just doesn't feel safe, don't do it.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 06-02-2013 at 09:29 PM.
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post #14 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
When you understand the HOW and WHY of kickback, you know what to expect. I also primarily use a table saw rated at 3 HP or so, but I can still stall it ....if need be. I would not be able to stall my 5 HP Powermatic and therefore, I give it a lot of respect.
You wouldn't have the time to stall any saw. Thinking you can puts you at risk. Of course, you can say you've done it before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
I don't think a blanket statement about what is "unsafe", by anyone here regardless of the number of years of experience, especially and including rrbrown's 25 years, can be applied to a specific operation or procedure. It all depends on the specific operation, the saw, the fence, the operator's skill and familiarity with that operation etc.
You can think whatever you want. It would be thought that anyone with experience woiuld be aware of safe table saw operation, unless of course they never learned proper safety.







.
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post #15 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 09:48 PM
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OK then

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You wouldn't have the time to stall any saw. Thinking you can puts you at risk. Of course, you can say you've done it before.



You can think whatever you want. It would be thought that anyone with experience woiuld be aware of safe table saw operation, unless of course they never learned proper safety.







.
I knew you would have a comment to which I have no comment.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #16 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 10:05 PM
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I knew you would have a comment to which I have no comment.
My comment is that if a suggestion is made on an open forum it should be a safe and proper suggestion. Members here don't need to be impressed or subjected to risky procedures by "skilled or experienced" operators.







.
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post #17 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 10:12 PM
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OK then

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
My comment is that if a suggestion is made on an open forum it should be a safe and proper suggestion. Members here don't need to be impressed or subjected to risky procedures by "skilled or experienced" operators.







.
I must confess, I'm not impressed....just sayin'

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #18 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 10:20 PM
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Lifting up the the front edge.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnealWoodworking View Post
When cutting thin stuff like that I generally jack the blade up a bit so that I can feed with my thumb UNDER the workpiece...
By lifting up the near edge of a thin piece of material and getting a thumb underneath it, helps concentrate the pressure on the rear. The rear wants to lift off because the rear of the blade is rotating upward. Any addition pressure on the rear of the piece will help to prevent that as long as the piece in maintained against the fence. I've done the same thing occasionally myself.... with no issues.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #19 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
You wouldn't have the time to stall any saw. Thinking you can puts you at risk. Of course, you can say you've done it before.



I have seen it done many times before... (and have done so myself on occasion)

Not hard to do with 3/4 stock and a low power saw (especially one driven by a belt)...

When you purposly stall the saw / bind the blade to the point it CANT move - You buy yourself TIME to hit the OFF switch with your knee...





Like Woodnthings said though - 'Some' saws you aint going to be able to do that with due to their power or the workpiece involved...


I have worked in 'production' type shops for many years and have seen a LOT... Just because YOU have NOT seen it - Does NOT make it impossible...
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post #20 of 30 Old 06-02-2013, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
By lifting up the near edge of a thin piece of material and getting a thumb underneath it, helps concentrate the pressure on the rear. The rear wants to lift off because the rear of the blade is rotating upward. Any addition pressure on the rear of the piece will help to prevent that as long as the piece in maintained against the fence. I've done the same thing occasionally myself.... with no issues.
That AND you can also bend the piece DOWN with the other fingers (different way of saying what you just said) (less the pinky that is hugging the fence) - As in when cutting plastic laminate...


If plastic laminate 'kicks back' - it is like a knife coming at you. You better NOT let a piece of it get 'loose' and come flying back at you... If you have control of it from the underside - You can easily pick UP and remove the piece from the blade if needed...

Same with 1/4 inch material.


What you described above about the blade and how it acts at the rear is especially true with respect to PL...
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