Shop heat - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 3Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 52 Old 04-01-2014, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 44
View Moark Willy's Photo Album My Photos
Shop heat

Hello everyone. I"m not sure if this is in the right place, so a moderator can move it if they wish.

How does everyone heat their shop? I use my garage for most of my projects and was seriously considering a hanging gas heater, such as a "Hot Dawg" My garage is attached so it never (hasn't in the last 8 years) gets cold enough to freeze, but after a few cold sunless days it is chilly in there. My bro-in-law uses electric heaters in his shop, but it takes several hours just to raise the temperature 10-15 degrees....and it's costly. I do have a warm air solar collector which I built that does help warm the garage a bit....a very little bit, but it does keep the chill off on sunny days.
Thanks for any input or advice you can give me. My attached garage is 28 x 28
Moark Willy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 52 Old 04-01-2014, 01:36 PM
Senior Member
 
JohnK007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Downers Grove, Illinois
Posts: 1,524
View JohnK007's Photo Album My Photos
Up until last year I used a 220v Fahrenheat 5,000 watt (17,000 btu) electric heater for my 20X22' detached garage/shop (440 sq ft). It worked fine but really made the electric meter spin when it was in use. The nice thing with electric is it's 100% efficient. I have R-11 in the walls and R-19 in the ceiling which, while not super, isn't bad. Last November I hung a 45,000 btu Big Maxx and as expected it heats the garage twice as fast with less cost per therm. I am really happy with it and glad I made the conversion to NG.

There are a couple things you need to consider before buying any heater: 1) how cold does it get in your region, 2) how often are you working in the garage and how warm is "warm enough", and finally 3) how well is the garage insulated?

Regarding the last question, a heater in a poorly insulated garage is just throwing money out the window. Case in point. A buddy of mine heats his garage with a LPG torpedo heater rated for 150,000 btu. His garage is the same size as mine but he only insulated the wall, not the ceiling. He also never covered the walls after he hung the fiberglass batting. When he fires up his torpedo it warms the place up alright, but after shutting it down the place gets cold pretty quickly. In other words he isn't holding the heat in. He goes through a 20lb bottle of gas at least once a week. We had a long Winter here this year and at $20-something a pop he's paying dearly for warm air. I've tried to tell him to put some insulation up in the ceiling and to cover those walls with osb but he's one of those stubborn mule types. Oh well, it's his money.

So getting back on track, if you are in a cold climate, make sure your insulation is up to snuff first.
JohnK007 is offline  
post #3 of 52 Old 04-01-2014, 02:09 PM
Senior Member
 
SteveEl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,560
View SteveEl's Photo Album My Photos
If you get chilly damp days, you can keep rust out of the garage plus add some heat with a defrosting dehumidifier. The unit itself puts out heat, plus each time a drop of water goes from vapor to drip you get heat of the phase change as well. I ran one that defrosts to 40F, plugged into an outlet accessory that cuts power below 45F. Wasn't all the heat I needed, but it sure helped and tamed the rust from damp spring/fall days.

If it jams, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway!
SteveEl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 52 Old 04-01-2014, 04:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Waynesfield, OH
Posts: 1,510
View Fred Hargis's Photo Album My Photos
Those hangin gas heaters are very good. You need to weight the total costs of the options, yes electric is expensive...but it's a cheap (and relatively easy) install. The gas heaters are a little more costly (mine, with a direct vent kit, was about $600 for a 45K unit, the direct vent kit was about $200 of that) and a more complicated to install, but you get quicker heat and lower operating costs. There may be other choices, but for a garage turned workshop, those 2 would be at the top of the list I would think.

"I long for the days when coke was a cola and a joint was a bad place to be" (Merle Haggard)
Fred Hargis is offline  
post #5 of 52 Old 04-01-2014, 06:37 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,988
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Just don't get one of those infared heaters. Once you get in front of one it hard to get away from them and the woodworking stops.

I heat my shop with a wood stove made from a 55 gal drum but I get wood for free since I live in wooded acreage in the country.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #6 of 52 Old 04-02-2014, 12:46 PM
Senior Member
 
JohnK007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Downers Grove, Illinois
Posts: 1,524
View JohnK007's Photo Album My Photos
Fred brings up a very good point. The electric Fahrenheat I first installed wasn't really any big deal once the 220v was pulled. I did have to upgrade my sub panel to handle the extra circuit but there was no venting, chimney, or gas pipe to worry about. The Big Maxx entailed all those things and was much more of a PITA to hang. It was also heavier. I'm still glad I did it but yes, much more work. Fred's also correct about the added costs. My wife bought me the heater for $400 at Farm 'N Fleet as a present, but I easily put another $200 into it with gas pipe, tubing, venting materials, unistrut and wire. Probably more.

Last edited by JohnK007; 04-02-2014 at 12:48 PM.
JohnK007 is offline  
post #7 of 52 Old 04-02-2014, 06:06 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Princeville, IL
Posts: 74
View walnutavenue's Photo Album My Photos
I installed a heater in my attached garage a couple years ago, and went with a 240v electric heater. The garage is for automotive work only (the woodworking shop is in the basement), so it's not continuous use, and doesn't need to be very warm. I went with electric for the low upfront cost, and to feel like I'm not committed to an expensive heating system.

I have a detached garage that's currently used for car storage, but would make a great woodworking shop if I wanted to move out of the basement. But if I did that I'd need another building to store the cars, so maybe that new building should be the wood shop. All this I largely dependent on whether or not my wife and I decide to make the basement into living space. The point is: the uses of these spaces are subject to change. That electric heater can move from one place to another very easily and for free. That's what made it the right choice for me.
walnutavenue is offline  
post #8 of 52 Old 04-02-2014, 09:41 PM
Senior Member
 
firehawkmph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 4,982
View firehawkmph's Photo Album My Photos
This question usually comes up every year but at the beginning of winter. I have a large shop building that is divided into three areas. My wood shop is 26'x28' with 11' ceiling height, the auto shop side is 28' x 36' with a cathedral ceiling 15' at the peak. The third area is the 24' x 24' garage attached to the house. Each area has a Williams Forceaire direct vent gas furnace, 62,000 btu input. They are quiet, efficient, and most importantly, safe. Combustion chamber is sealed off and draws intake air for combustion from the outside. Even in the coldest part of winter here, -5 F, it would heat the largest area up in 30-40 minutes. When it's around 20 degrees outside, the shops heat up in 15-20 minutes. They don't cost much to operate, and are not that difficult to install. The cost of one of these units now is around $1300 with the vent kit. It may be a bit more expensive, but they don't really require any maintenance and last a long time. My oldest one is 22 years old now and works fine. I would highly recommend them if you have natural gas available. They do make propane versions too.
Mike Hawkins
firehawkmph is offline  
post #9 of 52 Old 04-02-2014, 09:56 PM
Senior Member
 
mmwood_1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: corvallis, Oregon
Posts: 1,152
View mmwood_1's Photo Album My Photos
My shop is 740 square feet with 10' high walls and 13' peak, roughly 7500 cubic feet. I have a small wood stove which heats very effectively, costing me about $200/winter. BUT, I insulated the ceiling and the walls with R21 fiberglass and covered with sheet rock. It has a concrete slab too. In the winter, it is always about 10 degrees warmer inside than out (before heating) and in summer, about 10 degrees cooler inside than out. Regardless of what type of heat you use, don't neglect to clean the dust up regularly if you are running a heater. I know a furniture maker who didn't and burnt down his shop. You don't want that.
mmwood_1 is offline  
post #10 of 52 Old 04-03-2014, 08:53 AM
Thumb Nailer
 
dbhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: League City, Texas. A.K.A. Hurricane Alley
Posts: 2,483
View dbhost's Photo Album My Photos
My shop is an 18x20 attached garage, insulated with R13 in one wall, R10 and R30 in the door wall (wall around doors spray foamed to R30, doors using ridgid foam to R10), ceiling is R30, I still need to insulate one wall.

This winter which has been the coldest in years around here, I ran my 1600 watt oil filled radiator on the lowest setting to maintain the temp around 68-70 deg F...

To get it there in a hurry, I break out a Mr. Heater Portable Buddy deer blind heater. It's propane, and pushes out 9K BTU quickly... Takes about 10 minutes to go from Brrrr to toasty, I turn it off, then turn on the radiator, and all is well...

Cost of running the radiator is negligible for me, but then again, like I said, I am mostly insulated, and I live in Coastal Texas. Yes it gets cold, but not like what norther folks have to put up with... I actually had to run my AC in the shop yesterday...

Interested in my woodworking, workshop and whatnot? See http://daves-workshop.blogspot.com, want to see my other interests such as hunting, fishing, off roading, and camping? See http://wildersport-outdoors.blogspot.com
dbhost is offline  
post #11 of 52 Old 04-03-2014, 12:22 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jesup, Iowa
Posts: 375
View kjhart0133's Photo Album My Photos
I have a 36x36 (1296 sq. ft.) shop. It has radiant heating coils in the cement slab. Last season it cost me $495 to heat it to 60 degrees. This heating season I cut the temp back to 50 degrees and it has cost $398 so far. The system uses an electric "boiler" to heat the ethylene-glycol solution it pumps through the coils, which is why it's so expensive. If I turn the heat off entirely for December, January and February, I should save about $300. I'm contemplating doing just that next winter, though that would eliminate the only reason I have for living in the winter. I'll have to take up knitting I guess.

Kevin H.
kjhart0133 is offline  
post #12 of 52 Old 04-04-2014, 11:07 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 212
View Civilian's Photo Album My Photos
I have a 24'x 48' pole barn I use for a shop. It has a 12ft overhead door. Right now it is unheated in Northern Michigan. So I want to heat it. I only have a 100 amp electric panel, so I think any electric heat is out. Natural gas may not be an option as to a too high of price to get it to the building. I still need to insulate it. I am thinking of 6" FG on the walls covered by 8 ft high OSB. Then install metal ceiling and lay in batts of FG or have someone blow insulation in.

But my question is, when you aren't in the shop do you leave the furnace off and the temperature drops below freezing, and the reheat the building, will that cause rust to form? Or is it better to leave temperature setting at say 40 deg F and not let the building temperature drop below freezing? I don't need the building up to 60 degrees F to work in, just enough to glow and work with bare hands.

Any thoughts or experiences?

Jon
Northern Michigan
Civilian is offline  
post #13 of 52 Old 04-04-2014, 11:36 AM
Senior Member
 
jdpber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Seneca, SC - USA
Posts: 234
View jdpber's Photo Album My Photos
i use a Kero Drum wick heater.. and i mean to tell you this 30k bTU unit fills my 2 car garage with 15' ceilings with heat nice.. takes about an hour to pre heat it to the upper 50s to 60 from below freezing temps.. 30+ temp break.. and once warm will maintain warm on low for house.. a 2.2 gallon tank ran non stop for 2 days of work.. that is the longest continuous i have ran it.. i will add that i have insulated attic, insulated and sheet rock walls and insulated garage door.. bought it New old stock on CL for $38 only issue is missing the cover over the D battery for the igniter..
jdpber is offline  
post #14 of 52 Old 04-04-2014, 07:34 PM
Senior Member
 
firehawkmph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 4,982
View firehawkmph's Photo Album My Photos
Jon,
I only run the heat when I'm in the shop. Turning it on and off hasn't produced any rust problems. Natural gas doesn't add any moisture to the air like some other forms of heat. I'm in northeast ohio about a half hour from Lake Erie. Walls are insulated with either R-11 or 13, ceilings are R-19 batts. The insulation helps damper the temperature swings.
Mike Hawkins
firehawkmph is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to firehawkmph For This Useful Post:
Civilian (04-05-2014)
post #15 of 52 Old 04-05-2014, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 44
View Moark Willy's Photo Album My Photos
[QUOTE=firehawkmph;593626] Natural gas doesn't add any moisture to the air like some other forms of heat.

Well....that's just not true. Any source of heat which relies on combustion adds moisture to the air. The fact that yours does not is ONLY because it it vented....that's where the moisture goes.
Moark Willy is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Moark Willy For This Useful Post:
Civilian (04-05-2014), firehawkmph (04-05-2014)
post #16 of 52 Old 04-05-2014, 09:46 AM
SS user
 
Gene Howe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Snowflake, AZ
Posts: 2,690
View Gene Howe's Photo Album My Photos
I use a propane fired Procomm Ventless and flameless 3000 BTU heater. We have no access to natural gas out here on the mesa.
Being in northern AZ at 6500' it does get well below freezing during the winter. But, with the low humidity, there hasn't been any condensation issues. Our water pump is located in the shop, so the heater maintains the temp around 40ļ at night. that may account for the lack of condensation, also.
The heater cost was $200. Rather than run a line from the 250 gallon tank that serves the house, we just sat a 50 gallon tank outside the shop and ran the line through the wall, directly to the heater. Fuel cost are less than $400 this past winter. But, we're still using it a little till probably May.

Gene
The Patriot Woodworker

'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton
Gene Howe is offline  
post #17 of 52 Old 04-05-2014, 08:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 212
View Civilian's Photo Album My Photos
radiant tube heater

A radiant tube heater hanging from the ceiling is the way I am leaning towards. One reason is no blower to stir up the dust. And I think they can run at a lower temperature setting than the other gas furnaces like the ones used in homes. I have been told that home gas furnaces should not be set below 50 to 55 degrees F. I hear that from weekenders around here. So I presume that would apply to furnaces used in shops. But really I want enough heat in the building so I could glue at the low temperatures, say 45 degrees F and keep a jacket on. Because I have a full beard, my breath condenses on it when it is cold. I want the shop warm enough so that doesn't happen. Cast iron tops don't like that.

Mike and Moark: Are the direct vented furnaces better than the tube heaters?

Jon
Northern Michigan
Civilian is offline  
post #18 of 52 Old 04-05-2014, 08:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 212
View Civilian's Photo Album My Photos
just founf another thread

Just found another thread but haven't finished reading it completely.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f7/co...plosion-60111/

Wood dust explosions are what I want to avoid with heating my shop.

Jon
Northern Michigan
Civilian is offline  
post #19 of 52 Old 04-06-2014, 01:14 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 44
View Moark Willy's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Civilian View Post
Mike and Moark: Are the direct vented furnaces better than the tube heaters?

Jon
Northern Michigan
Two different animals. The tube heaters heat objects, like you and do not create any drafts or make any noise. They really shine in situations where you open the door often because since they heat objects instead of air, you don't lose the comfort or heat level. They also do not have an open flame which could create an issue with some chemical fumes. There is one drawback, and it's a funny one. If you stand under one of the tube heaters you just may not want to move away....like sitting in front of a fireplace.
Now the direct vent heaters are more fan forced and will "heat" the air faster and yes, you have a blower. They are better in circumstances where you don't use the shop continually for that reason. Turn it on when you need it and in a few minutes it's warm. But you will hear it, nd depending on the size it can make a bit of noise.
Whichever you choose for a wood shop will work fine. My shop is a home / hobby shop not used daily, so I will most likely go with the fan forced unit type...like a Hot Dawg or Mr. Heater suspended from the ceiling. And regarding the tube type....you need a higher ceiling to make them work.
Moark Willy is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Moark Willy For This Useful Post:
Civilian (04-06-2014)
post #20 of 52 Old 04-06-2014, 01:22 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 44
View Moark Willy's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Howe View Post
I use a propane fired Procomm Ventless and flameless 3000 BTU heater.
Did you mean 30,000 BTU?
I actually have a Procom gas stove / fireplace freestanding heater in my lower level family room which I use constantly from October through April to take the chill off. I have had it a few years and bought it as a backup heat during a power failure, when I bought a whole house generator for the same reason. I"ve used a kerosen torpedo heater which worked well but the fumes in an attached garage aren't too well liked by the wife. And my garage has little wall space or floor space left for a heater like yours.
Does yours sit on the floor or mount on the wall?
Moark Willy is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Suggestions for shop heat Quickstep General Woodworking Discussion 4 03-03-2014 06:13 PM
Shop Heat TooPicky General Woodworking Discussion 16 03-30-2013 10:40 AM
No Heat in my Shop....? littletoes Wood Finishing 7 05-04-2011 11:12 AM
New Heat Source rrich Off Topic 0 04-20-2011 09:07 PM
Heat on PBS pianoman Off Topic 14 10-22-2008 02:44 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome