How Many Light Fixtures Do You Need ? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 03-29-2013, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
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How Many Light Fixtures Do You Need ?

Lighting is a very important subject for work shops. Poor lighting can hinder your productivty, cause eye strain, and probably most importantly ,can compromise your safety.

The industry standard for general lighting in a room is 70 foot candles per square foot.

To determine how many fluorescent ceiling fixtures you need, a formula is needed to determine the number of lumens needed.

A couple of pieces of information are needed for the formula.
  • The square footage of the shop. Length X Width .
  • The Lumens per fixture. A typical 4ft. 40 watt bulb has 3150 lumens of lighting ability.
  • The co-efficient of usage. Represented by the constant .65
  • Light loss factor. Represented by the constant .75

For this example we will use a shop that measures 16x24 feet.

Sq. Ft. = 16x24= 384 sq.ft.


Multiply your sq. ft. (384) by 70 lumens. Since 70 lumens are needed for every sq. ft., this will give you a preliminary number for total lumens.

384 x 70= 26880 lumens . But we aren't done yet !
That is the minimum amount of lumens needed .

There is a light loss factor (.75) and a co-efficient of utilization (.65)
that are added together .

.75+.65 = 1.40

Now we can multiply the minimum amount calculated from above (26880) * (1.40) = 37,632 (almost there.)

37,632 lumens is then added to the minimum lumens needed to obtain

37,632 lumens + 26,880 lumens = 64,512 lumens.

Now we know how much ceiling lighting in lumens are needed. Here is how you determine how many fixtures you need for this 16x24 ft. shop.


As stated above a typical 4 ft. 40 watt bulb has 3150 lumens so a two bulb fixture has 2 x 3150 = 6300 lumens.


So finally we are down to just dividing the lumens of a typical 4 ft fixture (6300) into the total lumens needed (64,512) to light the shop to industry standards.

64,512/6300 = 10.24

So 10.24 four ft. fixtures with (2) 40 watt bulbs are needed to light the shop.

Fixtures Needed to light a 16x24 ft. shop = 10.24 fixtures.

In this case you could likely round down to 10 fixtures and be good.

This method obviously cannot take into account every shop configuration. Some tools will cast shadows and create areas that may not be illuminated as well as they should be. In those cases supplemental lighting can be added.

Also of interest, the height of ceiling isn't considered in this method. So I'm not sure how the industry derived this formula. I'm sure each shop will require some tweeking but this method should at least give some kind of starting point.

Seems a little time consuming but would be interesting to see how many of us are under or over industry standards for the lighting in
our shops.

Thanks for taking the time and work safe.

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post #2 of 40 Old 03-29-2013, 01:45 AM
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The 13 watt CFL light bulbs I use put out 830 lumens each. By your math, I would need 120 light bulbs in my 30 by 20 shop. 30*20*70*1.4+(30*20*70)=100,800 lumens required. 100,800/830=121.44578.... Now, I currently have 8 of those 13 watt CFLs in my garage/shop so according to your math, I shouldn't be able to see my own hands since I only have 6% of the required lumens in my shop. Ironically, I don't have that problem. Your formulas are off, or you're greatly overestimating the light output of the light fixtures.
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post #3 of 40 Old 03-29-2013, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itchytoe View Post
The 13 watt CFL light bulbs I use put out 830 lumens each. By your math, I would need 120 light bulbs in my 30 by 20 shop. 30*20*70*1.4+(30*20*70)=100,800 lumens required. 100,800/830=121.44578.... Now, I currently have 8 of those 13 watt CFLs in my garage/shop so according to your math, I shouldn't be able to see my own hands since I only have 6% of the required lumens in my shop. Ironically, I don't have that problem. Your formulas are off, or you're greatly overestimating the light output of the light fixtures.
Yep I got 60 fixtures also. My math doesn't suggest you couldn't see the hand in front of your face with 8 fixtures. But it does suggest you could use
the 6300 lumen fixtures and light the same area (to industry standards) with approximately a fourth as many fixtures or around 15 fixtures. 30 bulbs.

Its a guideline for industrial standards. It doesn't account for ambient light, etc. Do you have windows ? Is every square inch lit and suitable for doing close-in work without supplemental lighting at night ? Do you have large expanse of white walls, ceiling ?

I'm very curious about this.

20 x 30 - 600 sq. ft.

600 x 70 - 42000 lumens minimum

42,000 x 1.40 = 58800 lumens

58,800 + 42000 = 100,800

830 lumen bulb x 2 = 1660 for a 2 bulb fixture.

100,800 /1660 = 60.72 fixtures for CFL 2 bulb (1660 lumen) fixtures.

I got 60 fixtures. Sounds about right for 600 sq. ft. A fixture for every 10 sq. ft. While energy efficient, 60 watts isn't a lot of lighting power.

Again, OSHA doesn't care about saving money as much as safety. So these are industrial standards based on some very simple formulae. It doesn't take into account ambient light from windows or other factors that can enhance the lighting.

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post #4 of 40 Old 03-29-2013, 09:16 AM
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With only four 4' flourescent bulbs in my 24x24 garage, I must be way under the "recommended" amount of light, but I don't have a problem seeing what I am doing.

go figure

seems to me my eyes will tell me if i need more light ... ?
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post #5 of 40 Old 03-29-2013, 06:19 PM
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I have similar to what Chris has times four. (Four different circuits.) HOWEVER, I almost never turn the lights on.

The walls and ceilings have been painted high gloss white. The garage door faces north out onto a concrete driveway and the door is always open when I'm working in the shop, errrr garage. With the garage door open, I rarely need to use fluorescent lights.

Use the right tool for the job.

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post #6 of 40 Old 03-29-2013, 07:37 PM
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so grain, are you saying that you actually have 60 CFLs in your shop?
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post #7 of 40 Old 03-29-2013, 11:45 PM
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I need strong light to see what I am doing. I do not need light like solar noon on the equator through-out my entire shop. How many places can I be at one time, huh? But, I need "bad" light to see shadows and cuts in my carving = high contrast.
My best light for carving had a 48" sweep. The dang thing broke (plastic fitting) right in the middle. Until last Tuesday, I failed to realize how much I depended upon that lamp. I have the parts, it will be rebuilt, almost from scratch.
More and more, I am interested in hard, bright spotlights for my tools. You done? Shut it off.
If it's dim/dark behind me, what should I care?
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post #8 of 40 Old 03-30-2013, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Curl View Post
so grain, are you saying that you actually have 60 CFLs in your shop?
No ha. My shop only needs a few fixtures. That 60 fixtures was what was calculated to light a 30 x 20 shop to industry standards. The minimum would have been around 30 fixtures. And it likely assumes higher ceilings than most of us have.

Light luminosity decreases according to the Inverse Square law for distance or height.



But again, that formula used for determing the amount of fixtures needed, doesn't take into account the luminosity of ambient light from windows .

Thats why you see more companies installing skylights. It can be expensive to light a large building to OSHA standards.

Wal-Mart's stores are programmed to shut down approx. half of their lights in each store after around 11 pm till morning. That saves them millions of dollars a year in utility bills.

Like just about all of you I'm sure, I'm not going to be doing calculations to determine how much light I need in my shop. Most of us do the visual test. We can tell if we need more lighting and customize it to our shops individual
and unique needs.

Last edited by against_the_grain; 03-30-2013 at 01:09 PM.
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post #9 of 40 Old 03-30-2013, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by against_the_grain View Post
Yep I got 60 fixtures also. My math doesn't suggest you couldn't see the hand in front of your face with 8 fixtures. But it does suggest you could use
the 6300 lumen fixtures and light the same area (to industry standards) with approximately a fourth as many fixtures or around 15 fixtures. 30 bulbs.

Its a guideline for industrial standards. It doesn't account for ambient light, etc. Do you have windows ? Is every square inch lit and suitable for doing close-in work without supplemental lighting at night ? Do you have large expanse of white walls, ceiling ?

I'm very curious about this.

20 x 30 - 600 sq. ft.

600 x 70 - 42000 lumens minimum

42,000 x 1.40 = 58800 lumens

58,800 + 42000 = 100,800

830 lumen bulb x 2 = 1660 for a 2 bulb fixture.

100,800 /1660 = 60.72 fixtures for CFL 2 bulb (1660 lumen) fixtures.

I got 60 fixtures. Sounds about right for 600 sq. ft. A fixture for every 10 sq. ft. While energy efficient, 60 watts isn't a lot of lighting power.

Again, OSHA doesn't care about saving money as much as safety. So these are industrial standards based on some very simple formulae. It doesn't take into account ambient light from windows or other factors that can enhance the lighting.
I have a 20 by 30 garage/shop. The walls are old paneling that are dark brown, and there is a window. The window is on the north side of my home and does provide some ambient light during the day, but even at night, my garage/shop is well light. In fact, it's brighter than the remainder of my home. Additional lighting would be too much, except for task specific lighting, in the event that you actually need it. I need it only to check the sheen on finishes while on the lathe. I like a close light that I can physically move to check how it reflects in the finish to determine if I need to work on the finish more or not.

I do know that if I had 120 bulbs (60 2 bulb fixtures, or 30 4 bulb fixtures, or whatever combo you want), it would be blindingly bright in there and very unsafe. I could double the number of lights to 16 easily, but my garage already looks like a landing strip when I drive up at night. 120 bulbs would be 13 amps for lighting. 60 amps if I used the old incandescent bulbs. I have a 2300 square foot house (in addition to the garage/shop) which means I would need an estimated 290 amps devoted purely to lighting to light my home and garage/shop to industry standards using incandescent lighting. ((2300/600)*60+60) Add that to the 250ish amps for my heat pump, water heater, and kitchen and you've got 540 amps required as a bare minimum to light my home while I cook supper with the AC on. I don't think I can get a 500 amp service from the power company even if I wanted to.

I don't think your formulas are correct. 100,000 lumens is far too much for my space, and yours too unless you have significantly more area than me. Are you sure it's not 7 lumens per square foot instead of 70? That would put the minimum OSHA requirement at 6 fixtures in my garage/shop which is actually what I have now since I have two burned bulbs in there ATM. Lighting my garage/shop to 100,000 lumens would put it significantly brighter than daylight in there.
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post #10 of 40 Old 03-31-2013, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
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I will post a link to the pages I was referencing for the formulas Itchytoe. I need to dig them up.

Edited to add links:

Here is the link to the page that has the article and formula I referenced.

http://www.ehow.com/how_7941863_figu...-fixtures.html

Unless my math was wrong, it looks like the industry standard, as defined in that article is around twice the lighting most of us probably feel is sufficient for our shops. I only need about 2 or 3 fixtures for very good lighting, but the formula suggests 5 fixtures for my shop.


Here is another page that uses watts to determine lighting requirements.
I didn't reference this one or go through any math to check it yet.

http://www.ehow.com/how_7425247_calculate-fluorescent-lights-shop.html

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post #11 of 40 Old 03-31-2013, 01:42 AM
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Just some thoughts about lighting.

We all seem to be fixated on 4' fluorescent fixtures. I've been thinking that the next shop will be pot lights in the ceiling with LED bulbs. I think that the pot lights would have been a better choice for my shop.

YMMV

Remember that luminosity varies inversely as the square of the distance to the source. A 40 watt fluorescent with 3200 lumens on the ceiling gives you about 50 lumens / square foot on the floor. (Assumes 8 foot ceiling.)

Use the right tool for the job.

Rich (Tilting right)
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Remember that when we have the "BIG ONE" everything east of the Rockies falls into the ocean.

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post #12 of 40 Old 04-28-2013, 06:42 AM Thread Starter
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Here is a pretty informative article by SawMill Creek Editor
Jack Lindsey.

Lighting The Small Workshop.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/content....y-Jack-Lindsey

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post #13 of 40 Old 04-29-2013, 05:54 PM
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I am too cheap to light the whole shop for the sake of 1/2 of one bench.
The power miter saw, the drill press and the band saw each have dedicated little spot lights.
A swing arm desk lamp is OK for the table saw (used once a month, maybe)
I need three:
1. The central overhead room light so I don't trip over anything.
2. 2 x 40 LED lamps (1200Lm and 1300Lm) for wood carving. Just bought them, not installed yet but apparently equivalent to 150W each. The only downside that I can see is that they are heavy, 380g/13oz each.
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post #14 of 40 Old 04-30-2013, 07:50 PM
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It's a day later. I don't own any kind of a swing-arm or other lamp base strong enough to hold up a 13oz LED light. Existing fixture propped up with a stick!
BUT from 12" away, the light intensity is just great! Whether they were worth the $40 each or not remains to be seen. 60,000hrs gives me some time to decide.
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post #15 of 40 Old 04-30-2013, 08:58 PM
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I have 4 T12 sets of lights (2 bulbs in each set), 40 W. I think I need two more sets. I work out of my 2 car garage which is painted beige, concrete floor, no windows.
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post #16 of 40 Old 05-02-2013, 02:10 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itchytoe View Post
I have a 20 by 30 garage/shop. The walls are old paneling that are dark brown, and there is a window. The window is on the north side of my home and does provide some ambient light during the day, but even at night, my garage/shop is well light. In fact, it's brighter than the remainder of my home. Additional lighting would be too much, except for task specific lighting, in the event that you actually need it. I need it only to check the sheen on finishes while on the lathe. I like a close light that I can physically move to check how it reflects in the finish to determine if I need to work on the finish more or not.

I do know that if I had 120 bulbs (60 2 bulb fixtures, or 30 4 bulb fixtures, or whatever combo you want), it would be blindingly bright in there and very unsafe. I could double the number of lights to 16 easily, but my garage already looks like a landing strip when I drive up at night. 120 bulbs would be 13 amps for lighting. 60 amps if I used the old incandescent bulbs. I have a 2300 square foot house (in addition to the garage/shop) which means I would need an estimated 290 amps devoted purely to lighting to light my home and garage/shop to industry standards using incandescent lighting. ((2300/600)*60+60) Add that to the 250ish amps for my heat pump, water heater, and kitchen and you've got 540 amps required as a bare minimum to light my home while I cook supper with the AC on. I don't think I can get a 500 amp service from the power company even if I wanted to.

I don't think your formulas are correct. 100,000 lumens is far too much for my space, and yours too unless you have significantly more area than me. Are you sure it's not 7 lumens per square foot instead of 70? That would put the minimum OSHA requirement at 6 fixtures in my garage/shop which is actually what I have now since I have two burned bulbs in there ATM. Lighting my garage/shop to 100,000 lumens would put it significantly brighter than daylight in there.
The Jack Lindsay article I linked a few posts above can explain it better than I can. The article is over-kill for most of us. Over-kill in that there is more detail than most of us probably care about. I highly recommend browsing it over. I learned quite a bit.

For example the lighting requirement recommedation for people 25 yrs. old and under is significantly lower for those over 25 years old.Also some bulb and fixture types are not recommended with ceilings lower than 14 ft. due to the glare they would create.

You can skip the techno jargon and go right to his example. He uses a 1500 sq.ft. shop as an example (10 ft. high ceiling) with white painted walls and ceiling.

He also talks about glare and minimum height for some types of bulbs/fixtures.

He calculates 300,000 lumens on the ceiling are needed to get 150,000 lumens at the work surface. 107 bulbs in his example (27 fixtures). Assuming a 32w T8 lamp rated at 2800 lumens.

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post #17 of 40 Old 05-02-2013, 03:40 AM
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I'm sorry, but I reject the accuracy of your information. I read through the article and believe that he is wrong in his calculations. While they may be decent guidelines on lumens required for a shop assuming the use of the particular ballasts and bulbs he mentions, it is wrong to assume that a set lumen output of lights are required for a different set up. His calculations are simply wrong for the general case. His assumption that 50% of the bulb's light output will reach the work plane is incorrect. He simply asserts his figures with no evidence to support his assertions. By his calculations, I need need another 110ish light bulbs in my shop. His formulas are simply wrong. I do not need, nor should I have, 100,000 lumens in my shop. That much light would be blinding and unsafe.

I realize that you accept his calculations as accurate, but I do not.
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post #18 of 40 Old 05-02-2013, 06:52 AM Thread Starter
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^^ I find some of your skepticism and charges a little annoying. Not because you question . But you make accusations. Forgive me. But if you have qualifications in electrical engineering that make you question the accuracy of the design parameters in the article, I would like to know what those qualifications are ?

Actually I don't think you even read the article because , several of your questions were answered in it. If so, maybe you should read it again, slower this time.

He specifically stated that he would keep the theory to a minimum to shorten the article. He also stated that the topic could very well consume a catalog. As well he acknowledged that the topic of lighting a space is subjective .

The design parameters as stated in the article are guidelines based on commonly accepted standards and the writers opinion . There are not hard and fast rules. Obviously there is a lot of leeway between 50 and 100 footcandles. If 50 or 30 works for you, fine.

Its interesting that several skeptical commenters followed his design parameters and gave the article high marks and were surprised at the difference it made in their shops. Over 50 comments. Most if not all
positive.

As a side-note: Typically where several banks of lights are needed in a larger shop,banks are independantly switched, so only needed banks are used.

Sorry to get side-tracked. The article is a great reference and I highly recommend it .

For anyone interested ,below is a statement and the qualifications of the author .

"Dave Anderson, a Moderator of the forum, asked that I include my qualifications to write the article so here goes."

"I retired as a Senior Engineer from a major west coast electric utility where I specialized in lighting for over 25 years. My main responsibilities were providing assistance to commercial and industrial customers on lighting, training company personnel, and evaluating new lighting equipment. "

"I taught evening classes in lighting design at a couple of community colleges and a course in Illumination Engineering at a state university, and wrote “Applied Illumination Engineering” which was used as a text for those classes."

"I also wrote a monthly column on lighting for Electrical Contractor magazine, and have authored and presented numerous technical papers on lighting to IEEE, IESNA, and AEE. "

"I’ve served as an advisor to the California Energy Commission on the development of the lighting portion of their energy code and as a charter member of their Advance Lighting Professional Advisory Group."

"I am a Fellow of the Illuminating Engineering Society of North America and have served as President of that organization."

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post #19 of 40 Old 05-02-2013, 08:31 AM
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I did read that article, in its entirety. Yep, it's long. I found no evidence of any of his assertions. His assertion that my shop needs 100,000 lumens is about 20 times the empirically adequate level. His assertion is wrong. When my own empirical evidence shows that someone's calculations are off by an order of magnitude or more, I will remain to trust my own empirical evidence instead of trusting someone who is attempting to argue purely from authority. I reject several of the assertions and alleged industry standards in the article without some evidence, and therefore reject his claim that he is an authority on the subject.

I don't have any questions for him, so I don't know what questions you think his article answers. My qualifications that make me question him are the facts that I am both alive, and do not accept claims that are contrary to empirical evidence on the basis that the person making the claim also claims to be an authority on the subject. He is making a scientific claim that is demonstrably false.

His method may work well for you. If so, I wish you the best of luck with it. His lumen requirements greatly overestimate the required lighting in my shop by a factor of about 20.
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post #20 of 40 Old 05-04-2013, 12:10 AM
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FOOD FOR THOUGHT

In my shop, I have 6 dual tube (48") fixtures on 4 circuits. The shop is in a 1960s double car garage attached to the house. The garage door faces north out onto a concrete driveway.

I always work with the garage door open. (Heat and cooling aren't much of a concern here.) I almost never work in the shop after sunset.

I would guess that more than 90% of the time I work without the lights on. The walls and ceiling have been painted gloss white and it seems that I don't need to burn electrons for lighting.

What can I say but it works for me.

Use the right tool for the job.

Rich (Tilting right)
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