Cross cutting using the rip fence is a no no - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 52 Old 01-01-2011, 03:37 AM
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I agree the first cut was ok, but I wouldn't do the secondcut that way. That's personal opinion and preference. I also leave my blade guard and splitter on though and that is also my preference.

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Originally Posted by nijabhaava View Post
I guess I can happily rip ply sheets any way I want now. Ive been using the circular saw instead of my TS for all across the grain cuts, regardless of width.
Yes, plywood is composed of different levels, or plys, of wood. Each level has the grain running perpendicular to the prior one. This creates the stability that plywood is known for. This is why there really is no ripping or crosscutting of plywood. As stated the right blade helps the cleanliness of the cut, but the size of sheet and capabilities of your saw will more likely determine safety. If you can handle the sheet to the saw then it's safer to bring the saw, in this case your circ saw, to the sheet. The easiest way to cut those big sheets that I've tried is to set them on a sheet of foam insulation for a backer so you don't have to support the cut and cut off sides.
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post #22 of 52 Old 01-01-2011, 09:47 AM
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That second video scared the poop out of me! I've never experienced kickback like that (although one time my lathe grabbed a gouge out of my hands and threw it back at me).

I'm trying to figure out why the gentleman in the video wasn't wearing more protective gear knowing that he was going to intentionally cause the TS to launch a piece of material his way. I'm thinking he's lucky it veered off to his left and not his right.

Gakkuri
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post #23 of 52 Old 06-10-2011, 10:07 PM
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I'll bump this thread simply because I had a piece kick back today. Yeah I'm a newbie and yes I read and posted in this thread before. I just re-read it as a reminder to myself. I've probably only got a couple of hundred cuts under my belt so far.

I was cutting a piece of 3/4 AC plywood for drawers that I'm putting into a new work bench. I cut it slightly oversize with the skill saw and was cutting it to final size on the table saw (ripping a 27" long x 5" wide piece down to 4 1/2".

I used the ripping fence and was done with the cut but did not push the piece all the way past the blade. I was kicking the off button with my knee and allowed the cut piece to shift away from the fence and........bingo.

My saw came with a riving knife but I removed it earlier to do some rabbet cuts. Just didn't bother to put it back on. Might have prevented the incident? Pushing the work piece free and clear of the blade before hitting the stop button probably would have prevented it as well. I'm starting to like the idea of rigging up a board that extends the full width of the saw to make it easier to "bump" the stop button from any location.

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post #24 of 52 Old 06-10-2011, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
where's my table saw?
 
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get the splitter back on

hope you weren't hurt too badly...you didn't say and you can still see and type so.... A knee switch is always a good idea also. I have 'em. bill
BTW you must have a very straight edge against the fence or the piece will "walk" away on you. A circ saw may not give you that straight edge you need.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #25 of 52 Old 06-11-2011, 12:14 AM
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I forgot to mention that no injuries resulted. It made for a good lesson though. The factory edge was against the fence in this case but I have used a skill saw edge in the past. I'm going to have to re-think that one.

On the positive side, my first set of drawers are pretty much done....very crude but its a start

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post #26 of 52 Old 06-11-2011, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Microtus View Post
I'll bump this thread simply because I had a piece kick back today. Yeah I'm a newbie and yes I read and posted in this thread before. I just re-read it as a reminder to myself. I've probably only got a couple of hundred cuts under my belt so far.

I was cutting a piece of 3/4 AC plywood for drawers that I'm putting into a new work bench. I cut it slightly oversize with the skill saw and was cutting it to final size on the table saw (ripping a 27" long x 5" wide piece down to 4 1/2".

I used the ripping fence and was done with the cut (1)...but did not push the piece all the way past the blade. (2)... I was kicking the off button with my knee and allowed the cut piece to shift away from the fence and........bingo.

(3)... My saw came with a riving knife but I removed it earlier to do some rabbet cuts. Just didn't bother to put it back on. Might have prevented the incident? Pushing the work piece free and clear of the blade before hitting the stop button probably would have prevented it as well. I'm starting to like the idea of rigging up a board that extends the full width of the saw to make it easier to "bump" the stop button from any location.
You made three (3) mistakes that you are aware of and admit "Might have prevented the incident?" No doubt. Everything you do, or don't do can be either a safe method, or one that leads to a hazardous situation.

Having a "couple of hundred cuts under your belt" hopefully would contribute to your mental checklist for machine setup and operating technique. If they haven't, you can see what you have to concentrate on, to prevent injury.








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post #27 of 52 Old 06-11-2011, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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splitters

Splitters do 2 things that add a great deal to make the sawing operation safer.
1. when sawing hardwood from trees (not plywood) the wood can close up on the rear of the spinning blade which is relieved when the kerf breaks the internal stresses. When this happens a kickback may occur or in the very least, a bind which will stop the blade on a saw with low power.
2. when sawing plywood as well as ordinary stock the workpiece may walk off the fence behind the blade and rotate up and away powered by the blade. This is a guaranteed kickback. The splitter prevents this rotation and should be on the saw at all times except when making stopped or partial depth cuts.
bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 02-13-2012 at 03:35 PM. Reason: spelling?
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post #28 of 52 Old 06-22-2011, 11:14 PM
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When cutting any wood (manmade or natural), if the wood does not have a straight edge, and you are using a fence, your chances of kickback increases. My definition of a crosscut is when you are cutting the short side of the wood (if the length is across the table). My definition of ripping is when you are cutting the long part of wood (when the wood is mostly off of the table). Both can and have kicked back on me before. It is important that the correct blade is used and that it is NOT dull.
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post #29 of 52 Old 08-30-2011, 10:46 PM
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I learned this high school woods class. Kids had no common sense.
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post #30 of 52 Old 02-13-2012, 01:49 PM
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how do you get repeat cuts of exactly the same lenght without using fence?
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post #31 of 52 Old 02-13-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tad View Post
how do you get repeat cuts of exactly the same lenght without using fence?

It's magic!

Either that or a stop block...

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post #32 of 52 Old 02-13-2012, 02:34 PM
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Thx for posting Bill.

I have never cut anyting but wood or ply on my table saw, but agree with Cabinetman, I often do cuts like that using only my right hand to guide the piece against the fence.

In 35 years of woodworking, I have never experienced a table-saw kick back, perhaps I just had a good teacher, or perhaps I have just been lucky. I stick to certain rules though.

Someone posted they prefer a high blade adjustment. Personally I always keep my blade as low as possible, only just clearing the stock. Besides getting a much cleaner cut, it is safer.
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post #33 of 52 Old 02-14-2012, 02:01 AM
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Going back to the first video.

There are a couple of things to note:

Safety equipment is missing.
Operator is violating the "Shaka" rule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka_sign

Other than that, the operator has the material under control. The operator has downward pressure on the material. The operator has lifted the rear of the material at the start of the cut to insure complete control of the material.

So is the cut safe?
For an experienced saw operator, probably yes.
For a novice, absolutely not.

The major fault with the video is that there is no differentiation between novice and very experienced.

Use the right tool for the job.

Rich (Tilting right)
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post #34 of 52 Old 02-14-2012, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdntrdr View Post
It's magic!

Either that or a stop block...
stop block on a sled ?
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post #35 of 52 Old 02-14-2012, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tad View Post
stop block on a sled ?
That's one way.

Or your block can be clamped to the table or to the fence.

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post #36 of 52 Old 02-14-2012, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo G View Post
I don't see that big of a problem with what he was doing. He was cutting a square, now if he brought the fence out another couple of inches then it might be a bit dicey. Another thing is experience. If this guy had 3 minutes of TS experience then I would say he should have used a sled or miter gauge to have backup. This is something I wouldn't hesitate to do just like he did in the video.
Well I will disagree with you on this. I had 20+ years experience and used a push stick. Had a face shield and no blade guard because of type and size of cuts I was doing. I still cut off my finger. Sometimes experience is only an excuse to think you are better equipped to do a unsafe practice. It don't matter if you are aware of it or if you just fail to see it because of the experience you have, it still can have the same result. In my case Like I have said a thousand times. Everyone I know considers me extremely safe with equipment , guns etc. I just figure the starts and planets were aligned against me on that day. You never know when and experience can help or hurt your chances of having an accident.

I agree with Cman the kickback danger comes from lack of control of the pieces between the fence and blade.

Last edited by rrbrown; 02-15-2012 at 12:12 AM.
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post #37 of 52 Old 02-17-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbrown View Post
Well I will disagree with you on this. I had 20+ years experience and used a push stick. Had a face shield and no blade guard because of type and size of cuts I was doing. I still cut off my finger. Sometimes experience is only an excuse to think you are better equipped to do a unsafe practice. It don't matter if you are aware of it or if you just fail to see it because of the experience you have, it still can have the same result. In my case Like I have said a thousand times. Everyone I know considers me extremely safe with equipment , guns etc. I just figure the starts and planets were aligned against me on that day. You never know when and experience can help or hurt your chances of having an accident.

I agree with Cman the kickback danger comes from lack of control of the pieces between the fence and blade.
A good saw guard and riving knife is a must on any table saw and if anyone else worked in my shop, that would be the way it is.

Don't do what I do, I have never used either and never had a woodworking accident ever. My hands don't get close to the blade ever.

Started wooworking with my dad since grade school (1960's), when he was still alive. He taught safety at such a strict level, that it was just born in. It was so strict, that if ever I had an accident, I would have been too scared to tell him.

First nature is just to always keep my hands out of harms way from moving cutters and if not possible, make a jig or a plan.

To cut the board shown in the vid, due to its small size, I would have used my band-saw and finished with two or three strokes of my hand plane, in just about the same time.

Pure mathematics is, in it's way, the poetry of logical ideas. - Albert Einstein.
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post #38 of 52 Old 02-17-2012, 09:55 PM
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Richard,
Isn't the experience what tells the operator of the saw what to expect from the forces involved? Experienced and aware is probably safe. A novice, bring it to my shop and let me cut it for you.

BTW - A good push "stick" is a 12" square piece of 3/4" ply with a handle attached in about the center and 1" wide strip of hard board or 1/4" Baltic Birch as a lip to feed the sheet through the cut. To use the push stick the saw blade needs to be about 1/8" to 1/4" above the surface of the sheet material. My push stick has many saw grooves where it has gone over the blade while pushing both the piece and the off fall through the cut.

Use the right tool for the job.

Rich (Tilting right)
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Remember that when we have the "BIG ONE" everything east of the Rockies falls into the ocean.
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post #39 of 52 Old 02-23-2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrich View Post
Operator is violating the "Shaka" rule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka_sign
I see what the shaka sign is but what's the "shaka rule"? I'll guess that it's saying one should keep their hand at least that distance from the blade?
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post #40 of 52 Old 02-24-2012, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaincarver Steve View Post
I see what the shaka sign is but what's the "shaka rule"? I'll guess that it's saying one should keep their hand at least that distance from the blade?
A-men!

In Hawaii, when flashed and showing the back of the hand the Shaka means excellent, loosely.

And yes, by keeping your hand that far from the path of the blade is excellent.

Use the right tool for the job.

Rich (Tilting right)
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