Turning Tool sharpening - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 8Likes
  • 1 Post By epicfail48
  • 1 Post By ibboykin
  • 2 Post By epicfail48
  • 1 Post By woodnthings
  • 1 Post By holtzdreher
  • 1 Post By homestd
  • 1 Post By epicfail48
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 Old 10-19-2019, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
ibboykin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Fulton, KY
Posts: 52
View ibboykin's Photo Album My Photos
Turning Tool sharpening

I inherited a lot of tools, jugs, and lumber after my fathers death. I have a couple of storage buildings where I stored all of these tools while I built My shop. I’ve been slowly moving them in. Yesterday I discovered a small bucket full of traditions turning tools. I didn’t know he had these because he didn’t own a lathe. They all have some rust but that is nothing since I have an electrolysis tank I can use to remove all of that. My need is sharpening. I’ve never done much sharpening other than a joe blade or an occasional pocket knife. So my question is this: What is the simplest and/or best way to sharpen and maintain turning tools and chisels?

WAOM
HYDR

Last edited by John Smith_inFL; 10-23-2019 at 12:15 PM. Reason: corrected typo
ibboykin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 10-19-2019, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
ibboykin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Fulton, KY
Posts: 52
View ibboykin's Photo Album My Photos
Here is a pic of the turning tools.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg D8DE95D5-8FEB-450E-9C16-DA3E6E586A12_1571490497066.jpg (601.3 KB, 48 views)

WAOM
HYDR
ibboykin is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 10-19-2019, 10:54 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 25,870
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Check this out .....

If you have to "restore' the original bevel, that's different than maintaining the edge like this, which will give you a fast and easy method:


Or this when you need to grind a new edge, BUT grinding is a complex process with tempering issues, maintaining the proper curvature and angles and the grinder and jigs can get expensive:

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 10-19-2019 at 11:04 AM.
woodnthings is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 19 Old 10-19-2019, 11:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,985
View Tool Agnostic's Photo Album My Photos
I will watch this thread with interest. There are lots of different ways to sharpen and maintain your turning tools.

-> Regardless of which method(s) you choose, it is my opinion that the real "trick" to sharpening turning tools is being able to set bevel angles perfectly and consistently each time. It is that consistency that makes re-sharpening go quickly and easily, and encourages quick "touch-ups" when your tools get dull, so you can get back to turning without pause. There is nothing like the pleasure of using sharp tools, and they can get dull quickly, especially if you are a beginner, so easy, quick resharpening helps a lot.

If you are inconsistent with the bevel angles, then you will find yourself with a lot of micro-bevels and other issues, or you find yourself having to grind a fresh, new bevel all too often.

I have a Grizzly wet grinder with Tormek jigs. I wanted a real Tormek, but tried to save money. I used to recommend this setup, but now I am re-thinking my choices. I will live with them, but you don't have to. I chose the wet grinder because I thought it would protect my tools from heat damage during sharpening. They do that, but they are also slow and it is very challenging to set the bevels consistently, despite using the Tormek TTS-100 "Turning Tool Setter." I have to grind new bevels more often than I like, and the cool, wet grinder takes its time. (Note: The Tormek thin leather wheels do not fit the Grizzly.)

Here is what I have, but I would try something different if I were starting over:
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Gri...tion/T10010ANV
I have what comes in this set, but I bought them individually:
https://www.rockler.com/tormek-woodt...ry-kit-tnt-708
Add:
At the recommendation of a friend, I use this for sharpening my roughing gouge:
https://www.rockler.com/short-tool-j...pening-systems
For flattening the stone:
https://www.rockler.com/diamond-ston...pening-systems

I have seen experienced woodworkers hand sharpen their tools on a low speed grinder with a CBN wheel. They just walk up to the grinder with the tool, eyeball the angle, and do it. That is way beyond my level of experience.

A couple weeks ago I saw a simple turning setter that consisted of a wood block drilled to a precise depth. Put the turning tool in the hole, and bring the jig to the top of the block. Done. My only concern is the consistency of bottoming out the tool with its sharp edge. I might put some type of hard plastic washer in the bottom to provide a non-dulling, hard surface for consistency. (I did not have good luck with homemade "surface" setting jigs that work like the TTS-100 - the tools cut into the wood stops in an inconsistent way.)

What would I try now if I were starting over, or recommend for others to try? Probably the Wolverine jig (plus their Vari-Grind 2) with a low speed grinder. I might replace the basic white aluminum oxide stone(s) with a CBN or diamond wheel. I have not used them, but that's what I would think about if I were starting over.
https://www.rockler.com/rikon-80-805...-bench-grinder
https://www.rockler.com/oneway-wolverine-grinding-jig
https://www.rockler.com/oneway-wolve...old-separately

I am eager to see how others respond.
Tool Agnostic is online now  
post #5 of 19 Old 10-19-2019, 04:15 PM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,686
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Sharpening a turning tool isn't much different than sharpening a knife. The core concept is the same, it's just the shape of the edge that changes. All you need to do is put a polished acute angle on the edge. Tool Agnostic probably have you the best advise you're going to get, complete with tool suggestions, so I'd go through that and invest in something like the wolverine jig, if finances allow.

Personally, I use sandpaper on granite for polishing my edges and just freehand that. If the edge needs more than a touch-up, I'll freehand that on a belt grinder then go back to the paper. Personally I don't do enough turning to invest in the sharpening jigs and get good results just going freehand, but YMMV
mjadams61 likes this.

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 10-22-2019, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
ibboykin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Fulton, KY
Posts: 52
View ibboykin's Photo Album My Photos
I appreciate everyone’s input. After reading the responses I looked into and ordered the Trend Diamond Stone and lapping oil. It seems like a simple method and is a lot less expensive to start out than a grinder and all kinds of jigs. I’ll probably end up with that down the road but to begin I felt this was the better choice....at least for now.
Tool Agnostic likes this.

WAOM
HYDR
ibboykin is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 10-23-2019, 01:41 AM
Generic Weeb
 
WeebyWoodWorker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Gorgeous Oregon!
Posts: 890
View WeebyWoodWorker's Photo Album My Photos
I've got a small WEN wet wheel and that works for me. For skews I have a sharpening stone though


-T

God I love Trigger. Inferno Cop is exactly the sort of idiocy they do, It's what makes them so cool. Met them all, great guys.
WeebyWoodWorker is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 10-23-2019, 06:58 AM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,686
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibboykin View Post
I appreciate everyone’s input. After reading the responses I looked into and ordered the Trend Diamond Stone and lapping oil. It seems like a simple method and is a lot less expensive to start out than a grinder and all kinds of jigs. I’ll probably end up with that down the road but to begin I felt this was the better choice....at least for now.
Honestly, good on you. Learning the fundamental skills before moving to the fancy stuff keeps you from overlooking a lot of very handy skills. Hand sharpening will take longer, but you learn more about what it takes to get a good edge, and the skills translate pretty well once you start getting the fancy tools
mjadams61 and gmercer_48083 like this.

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 10-23-2019, 11:01 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 25,870
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Sharpeneing is about consistency and angles.....

Whether you sharpen by hand using muscle memory, or a guide to maintain the angles, consistency is key. Otherwise the bevel will be at different angles along the edge. Lathe tools have long handles which offer more support for accuracy than blades or chisels. But this also means you need a type of different guide.

Although I have an 8" grinder I prefer to use my 6" X 48" belt sander for metal sharpening. The large flat surface is easier to read against the angle. I can't get a "hollow" grind this way, but I haven't found the need for it. I sharpen almost all my twist drills in a drill sharpening jig that has different angle settings and is very consistent. It's bolted to the table on the sander and swings into the belt when needed or away when not needed. I haven't sharpened a lathe tool with the sander yet, but I'm pretty certain it would go quite well.

The other big advantage of using the belt sander as a grinder is heat reduction. The belts run cooler AND come in different grits .... 100, 150 up to 220 are used in my shop for sharpening. Flattening the sole of a plane or the back side of a beveled edge too is fast and easy. Knife makers use belt grinders almost exclusively for sharpening and removing larger amounts of material.
gmercer_48083 likes this.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 10-25-2019, 08:37 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 644
View holtzdreher's Photo Album My Photos
Turning tools require tough edges and the angles are different than for sharpening a knife, a carpenter chisel or a carving tool. Each has different degrees of "fineness" to the edge. A knife edge on a turning tool would likely result in breakage and chips along the edge. A Carpenter chisel edge on a knife would be hard to cut with. For some tools, I use a wen wet honing machine that I picked up at a yard sale. I can adjust the angle of the edge, but cannot accommodate wide tools. For my skew chisels I use a diamond hone to dress the edge and only "power sharpen" about once a month. And then very lightly. On a regular grinder, it is too fast and too aggressive for the normal heavy beginner touch. Beginners often end up over heating the steel and ruining the edge. When I started turning 50 years ago, tools were vastly different and we did not have fancy jigs. All tools were shaped using very light touches on the grinder and then finish honed on a stone. We now have a wide bewildering variety of tools to sharpen with with an equally bewildering variety of prices. . The old way still works, but is not as precise as some jigs and other ways.
Kerrys likes this.
holtzdreher is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 10-25-2019, 01:02 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: SE, KY
Posts: 66
View homestd's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Whether you sharpen by hand using muscle memory, or a guide to maintain the angles, consistency is key. Otherwise the bevel will be at different angles along the edge. Lathe tools have long handles which offer more support for accuracy than blades or chisels. But this also means you need a type of different guide.

Although I have an 8" grinder I prefer to use my 6" X 48" belt sander for metal sharpening. The large flat surface is easier to read against the angle. I can't get a "hollow" grind this way, but I haven't found the need for it. I sharpen almost all my twist drills in a drill sharpening jig that has different angle settings and is very consistent. It's bolted to the table on the sander and swings into the belt when needed or away when not needed. I haven't sharpened a lathe tool with the sander yet, but I'm pretty certain it would go quite well.

The other big advantage of using the belt sander as a grinder is heat reduction. The belts run cooler AND come in different grits .... 100, 150 up to 220 are used in my shop for sharpening. Flattening the sole of a plane or the back side of a beveled edge too is fast and easy. Knife makers use belt grinders almost exclusively for sharpening and removing larger amounts of material.
Woodnthings, If it wouldn't be too much trouble, could you post a picture of the aforementioned drill sharpening jig. I always need ideas for sharpening various tools and your rig sounds like an approach that I might be able to use. Thanks


Charlie
gmercer_48083 likes this.

Mother is the necessity of most invention.
homestd is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 10-25-2019, 03:54 PM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,686
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Slight point of contention, but beyond adding the first edge to a knife, bladesmiths don't use belt grinders to sharpen knives. We use stones like everybody else. Grinders take off too much material for regular sharpening.

Also, I'd very, very strongly recommend against using a belt grinder to try and make something as flat as you'd want to make a chisel. The belts dont run perfectly flat against the platen, they tend to bunch up at the edges and round the corners of your workpiece ever so slightly. A disc grinder would be a slight improvement, but honestly, just get some sandpaper and a flat surface. You only need to lap the backs once and it's not a horribly involved process

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 10-25-2019, 04:34 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 25,870
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Drill sharpening jig ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by homestd View Post
Woodnthings, If it wouldn't be too much trouble, could you post a picture of the aforementioned drill sharpening jig. I always need ideas for sharpening various tools and your rig sounds like an approach that I might be able to use. Thanks
Charlie

This is one like I use:
https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools...2031662&sr=8-1


As far as flattening a chisel or plane sole on a belt sander, depends on the sander. My 6" X 48" belt sander has a very large platten and I've never experienced the belt bunching up. If you are, you are applying too much feed pressure, rather than letting the belt to the work. Typically knife makers use a 2" wide belt, so the machine is quite different than my sander.


Spraying with marking dye or a Sharpie will tell you instantly where you are removing material. Come over, I'll show you how I do it......

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 10-25-2019 at 04:36 PM.
woodnthings is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to woodnthings For This Useful Post:
homestd (10-26-2019)
post #14 of 19 Old 10-25-2019, 10:06 PM
Senior Member
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Motown
Posts: 412
View _Ogre's Photo Album My Photos
for drill bits 'drill doctor' is the cats meow
and really not a lot more than that at amazon

_Ogre is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 10-25-2019, 10:07 PM
Senior Member
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Motown
Posts: 412
View _Ogre's Photo Album My Photos
ibboykin's dad and mine must have shopped at the same store
my turning chisels look like his
_Ogre is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 10-26-2019, 05:48 AM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,686
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
This is one like I use:
https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools...2031662&sr=8-1


As far as flattening a chisel or plane sole on a belt sander, depends on the sander. My 6" X 48" belt sander has a very large platten and I've never experienced the belt bunching up. If you are, you are applying too much feed pressure, rather than letting the belt to the work. Typically knife makers use a 2" wide belt, so the machine is quite different than my sander.


Spraying with marking dye or a Sharpie will tell you instantly where you are removing material. Come over, I'll show you how I do it......
Its not a matter of platen size, its a matter of how the belt moves over the platen and looseness between the abrasive and platen. The mechanics of operation dont change between a 2x72 sander and a 6x48, and thats speaking as one of those 'typical knife makers' who routinely uses both. Ill also see your sharpie and raise you a surface plate. A sharpie will tell you where youre removing metal, but unless you have something to compare that to its a worthless test. If you have an already flat surface but grind it against a curved platen, the sharpie will tell you youre only removing material in one spot and make you think the surface isnt flat.

Speaking of curved platens, the friction of the belt moving against the platen creates heat. Heat warps metal. Warped metal isnt flat. Now, im sure your 6x48 sander is one of those magical pieces of old american iron that had no vibration, makes no noise, generates no dust, and otherwise breaks conventional physics, and congrats, but that doesnt make an improper operation proper
mjadams61 likes this.

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 10-26-2019, 02:07 PM
Senior Member
 
hawkeye10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Murfreesboro, Tn.
Posts: 1,088
View hawkeye10's Photo Album My Photos
I use a Wolverine jig and a CBN wheel. I have just started turning and have been using carbide tools. I want to learn to use traditional tools but I am finding they are really hard for me to learn. Now getting them sharp is another story. I have no problem getting them sharp. The CBN wheel makes it so easy. I only have one CBN wheel and it's a 180 grit. I would like an 80 grit but they are a little pricey but worth it. All you really need is a 180 grit wheel.

Don in Murfreesboro, TN.
hawkeye10 is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 10-26-2019, 02:55 PM
Senior Member
 
Kerrys's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sedro Woolley, WA
Posts: 739
View Kerrys's Photo Album My Photos
When I ventured into turning I purchased an inexpensive but well reviewed set of chisels. I made a jig to use with a six inch grinder I already owned to sharpen my inexpensive chisels. After learning how to sharpen my tools I upgraded both the chisels and sharpening equipment. I still use many of the inexpensive chisels but have added a couple of higher quality chisels to those. I upgraded the old six inch grinder to a low speed eight inch grinder and replaced the homemade sharpening jig with the Wolverine system.
Kerrys is online now  
post #19 of 19 Old 11-18-2019, 10:27 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Greeley, Colorado
Posts: 138
View P89DC's Photo Album My Photos
It's nice to be thrifty and pernerious but this is woodturning edges not hand chisels or hand planes. The edge I make on a hand chisel or hand plane blade will last a few seconds on a wood lathe.

When I make spindles or handles on my lathe I sharpen my tools each time I make an object. Fresh edge is important and to do it by hand will take hours as opposed to a few seconds for each chisel with a grinder or sanding belt.

Low cost sharpening for lathe tools is a belt sander or 6" 3400rpm bench grinder. I've had a 6"/3400rpm grinder for decades, I added a white wheel in the early 90s and used it for years with the tiny rest that came with the grinder (craftsman from 1975).

In the long run a grinder is cheaper but if you already have a belt sander then its just the cost of belts. One reason I don't use my belt sander is I don't like to add sparks to wood dust. These days i roll my grinder out on the driveway and sharpen outside for fire prevention reasons. There's lots of low cost grinders for sale on Craigslist for the price of a few 6x48 belts.

I did upgrade recently to a 8" low speed white wheel grinder with Veritas rests and a heavy duty HF grinder stand. One of these days I'll spring for a CBN wheel but for now the white wheels work fine.
P89DC is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome