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post #21 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurninandBurin View Post
You had to many post to quote it all this late
If someone is selling a $13 pen it is probably cheap materials or crappy work. While their price is less then most so is the quality. You should be able to see it but if not it's our job to show how ours are better.

As for my signs why should I have raised my prices because others were ripping people off. As I said my prices were set way before I went to a show. Of the $10 for a sign $8.75 was profit. Could I have raised my price to meet theirs? Yes but why so they could sell more of their signs that fell apart. I don't think so. I think they should have made a better product and been fair with their pricing. besides I had to deal with the stigma of them making crap. In my 10 + years of doing craft shows not one crafter ever complained that I was selling stuff to cheap.

If someone is just trying to under cut your prices then they are wrong and I would never say to do that. I have traveled several states doing craft shows and I have sold on the net. Local economies even within the same state can make a difference on what people will pay for items. It is your job as a craftsman to promote and sell your items. You are a salesman for your and need to use workmanship, pricing, advertisement presentation and communication to be successful. Worring what the other guy is doing helps some but it can't be the determining factor.

As for your $2.00 Slimline kits I will order some and see, but if I sell a pen for $50-$100 and the finish comes off in 3-6 months I'm going to lose customers. More expensive dont always mean better but being the cheapest usually means there could be a problem later. I also don't usually count on a lifetime warranty because they are gimmicks allot of the time or the company could go out of buisness. However they sell a cheaper Funline kit that's like the hobby kit you buy and they no where near the quality of the regular slimline or other kits for that matter. I couldn't sleep at night selling that quality for that high of a price no more then I could have if I raised my sign price just because of the other guys price.

Link to Funline pens on PSI here is the description price is 1.80 (I would not use this quality of kit)

Our new Funline Slimline Pen Kits offer some of the best values on the market and come in 6 different platings. This new Funline Slimline Economy Gold pen kit includes an attractive ball clip and oriental style band. Note: Our lifetime warranty does not apply to this line. (must order in quantities of 5)

You assumed we were talking about same quality and workmanship. The problem being you should never assume and why would you anyways with so many different levels of experience on this forum. Now go back to the post from Mike the OP when he said. "before reading this i thought £15 was a little high for a pen... obviously not thanks all " Tell me location don't matter. I often forget this is the world wide web myself.

One last point blanks can be bought are made from other stock. They can have a big difference in price from plain to figured/burls or domestic to exotic all this has to be considered also for pricing.

I'm a honest man doing an honest days work for honest pay and I take pride in that and my work. That's why I sleep good at night. Well if I'm not up late posting.

Hey TurninandBurin have a beer and chill you seam a little worked up.

Last edited by rrbrown; 01-25-2011 at 02:53 AM.
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post #22 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbrown View Post
If someone is selling a $13 pen it is probably cheap materials or crappy work. While their price is less then most so is the quality. You should be able to see it but if not it's our job to show how ours are better.

As for my signs why should I have raised my prices because others were ripping people off. As I said my prices were set way before I went to a show. Of the $10 for a sign $8.75 was profit. Could I have raised my price to meet theirs? Yes but why so they could sell more of their signs that fell apart. I don't think so. I think they should have made a better product and been fair with their pricing. besides I had to deal with the stigma of them making crap. In my 10 + years of doing craft shows not one crafter ever complained that I was selling stuff to cheap.

If someone is just trying to under cut your prices then they are wrong and I would never say to do that. I have traveled several states doing craft shows and I have sold on the net. Local economies even within the same state can make a difference on what people will pay for items. It is your job as a craftsman to promote and sell your items. You are a salesman for your and need to use workmanship, pricing, advertisement presentation and communication to be successful. Worring what the other guy is doing helps some but it can't be the determining factor.

As for your $2.00 Slimline kits I will order some and see, but if I sell a pen for $50-$100 and the finish comes off in 3-6 months I'm going to lose customers. More expensive dont always mean better but being the cheapest usually means there could be a problem later. I also don't usually count on a lifetime warranty because they are gimmicks allot of the time or the company could go out of buisness. However they sell a cheaper Funline kit that's like the hobby kit you buy and they no where near the quality of the regular slimline or other kits for that matter. I couldn't sleep at night selling that quality for that high of a price no more then I could have if I raised my sign price just because of the other guys price.

Link to Funline pens on PSI here is the description price is 1.80 (I would not use this quality of kit)

Our new Funline Slimline Pen Kits offer some of the best values on the market and come in 6 different platings. This new Funline Slimline Economy Gold pen kit includes an attractive ball clip and oriental style band. Note: Our lifetime warranty does not apply to this line. (must order in quantities of 5)

You assumed we were talking about same quality and workmanship. The problem being you should never assume and why would you anyways with so many different levels of experience on this forum. Now go back to the post from Mike the OP when he said. "before reading this i thought £15 was a little high for a pen... obviously not thanks all " Tell me location don't matter. I often forget this is the world wide web myself.

One last point blanks can be bought are made from other stock. They can have a big difference in price from plain to figured/burls or domestic to exotic all this has to be considered also for pricing.

I'm a honest man doing an honest days work for honest pay and I take pride in that and my work. That's why I sleep good at night. Well if I'm not up late posting.

Hey TurninandBurin have a beer and chill you seam a little worked up.
As for your signs. The materials and your time to: make, sell, and market was at a cost of $1.25 per sign? Hard to believe that you factored in all of your materials and time at $1.25 per sign. Profit is everything left over after everything has been paid.

I never said to raise your price because everyone else as ripping people off. They were not ripping them of because of price, but quality. I am a General Contractor, and while you are correct that just because you pay a lot doesn't mean it's good, it is also true that paying the cheapest price is probably not in your best interest either.

I also don't think that I indicated that I worry about what the other guys sell their pens at. Does it upset me to see someone selling the same pen at a cutthroat rate, sure, but I don't worry about it. Remember I didn't start this thread, just responded to the OP. This is why I said that I think that slimlines should go for $20 min. You were the one that started throwing in that I couldn't dictate the price, and if a guy had to sell one at $13 to feed his family then so be it. You were the one that went all emotional and sappy.

I just don't think that you are used to people disagreeing with you, and not giving up.

You still have yet to provide anything concerning the "lifetime warranty". Why would they say that they only cover the 24k parts, if the entire pen was lifetime warranty? For that matter if all of their pens were lifetime warranty why would they single out the 24k parts at all? Please provide us with something that says all of their pens (except the funline) are covered under a lifetime warranty.

Again, I didn't say all slimlines should be sold at $20. Are you really not paying attention? I said that the min should be $20. Obviously if I spent $20 on a figured or burled blank you wouldn't charge $20.
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post #23 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurninandBurin View Post
As for your signs. The materials and your time to: make, sell, and market was at a cost of $1.25 per sign? Hard to believe that you factored in all of your materials and time at $1.25 per sign. Profit is everything left over after everything has been paid.

I never said to raise your price because everyone else as ripping people off. They were not ripping them of because of price, but quality. I am a General Contractor, and while you are correct that just because you pay a lot doesn't mean it's good, it is also true that paying the cheapest price is probably not in your best interest either.

I also don't think that I indicated that I worry about what the other guys sell their pens at. Does it upset me to see someone selling the same pen at a cutthroat rate, sure, but I don't worry about it. Remember I didn't start this thread, just responded to the OP. This is why I said that I think that slimlines should go for $20 min. You were the one that started throwing in that I couldn't dictate the price, and if a guy had to sell one at $13 to feed his family then so be it. You were the one that went all emotional and sappy.

I just don't think that you are used to people disagreeing with you, and not giving up.

You still have yet to provide anything concerning the "lifetime warranty". Why would they say that they only cover the 24k parts, if the entire pen was lifetime warranty? For that matter if all of their pens were lifetime warranty why would they single out the 24k parts at all? Please provide us with something that says all of their pens (except the funline) are covered under a lifetime warranty.

Again, I didn't say all slimlines should be sold at $20. Are you really not paying attention? I said that the min should be $20. Obviously if I spent $20 on a figured or burled blank you wouldn't charge $20.
OK This is the end for me because it isn't going anywhere.

As for my signs and profit you are correct labor was not included because anything above material cost and or booth space I consider mine. However I can assure you that my numbers are right. If you don't believe it oh well.

You said "They sell a slimline starting at $2.00. I buy their Hobby Line Slimlines and the finish does not effect the price on them. I have had great success with their" kits.

Those kits are the same as the PSI Funline kits which are crappy and if your selling those for $20 your ripping people off.
The clips are thin, easily bend and the finish is not as good as the PSI slimline. They list it as a hobby kit for a reason. I now that from experience while learning to turn pens with the Funline or hobby kits.

As for the warranty I made a call to PSI and I invite you to do the same if you doubt me. There web site and catalog will be changed because they do offer the lifetime warranty on all pen kits and finishes except the Funline. You know the hobby line you use and sell. The reason it says gold is because all other finishes are solid material but the gold is plated.

While on the phone with them I asked why other people were selling the Penn State Industries kits for less then they were. Maybe you new this but I didn't Penn State Industries line of pens gets all there pens from I think she said Penn State Woodworking in china. The name of the company was the suprise not that it came from China.

So thanks for the info on Wood N Whimsies. However there is still the matter of the hobby line being sold. You say undercutting hurts everyone and it does if its same quality. I never once said to undercut anyone's prices which you seam to imply. New Orleans French Quarter had someone selling like 2-3 different color wood pens for like $7 at the flea market. does this hurt me no it's a flea market,I'm not selling there and I will keep a few cheap pens around to show the difference in quality from what I make and the cheap china imports.

Man get off the thing about me not listening. I been posting on here for a very long time and have given good advise helping many people on here. I not only heard the facts but heard the BS as well.

Location matters hence the OP don't even live in this country.

You think everyone should agree to a min price so you can make more money. Me I let me work do most of the selling.

I pointed out that quality matters in price. You introduced at least to me to a new supplier with good prices. However you admit to using the cheaper hobby line in pens which I guess your selling. I came to that conclusion since your upset about people undercutting your prices. What about using inferior materials and wanting top dollar. Whats that called?


You said "I just don't think that you are used to people disagreeing with you, and not giving up."

Really I have a 16,17 and 22 year old, all they do is disagree and not give up. It don't make them right.


How about you say your last comment and we move on. Then you can have time to load up some pictures of your work in albums for everyone to see.

Oh order some good pen kits stop using the crappy ones to sell. You give the rest of us a bad name
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post #24 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurninandBurin View Post
I don't think that I indicated a raise in pricing over another vendor. You are missing my point. There needs to be a reasonable price point. $13 is ridiculous. Undercutting price does no one any good. The attitude that if it feeds your family than do it, is killing the remodeling business. And it will kill our business. We, as Penturners, need to stick together and offer our products at REASONABLE prices.

As for your example, the kit cost between Slimline and Funline are not that different. Most are between $2-3$ no matter the finish. I just checked out WoodandWimsies and the material has no baring on cost, whether it is gun metal, gold, chrome...

With $4-$5 min per min in just the kit and blank, and 30 minutes time from start to finish, you are not feeding anyone. You need to include all other items used to make the pen, all of your tools, glue, paper towels, etc.

I understand how to price, but we need not price ourselves out of business. I can't stand walking into a UPS store and see a guy selling slimelines for $12. There is no way that there is any money in it. Even if you make $7 a pen you would need to sell hundreds to feed your family, and I doubt many guys are feeding their family selling pens.
The difference being, most of these decent pens are being turned by people who aren't trying to feed their families, they're just trying to make a little extra to offset the cost of their hobbies.

Pricing, as rrbrown indicated, has so many variables that saying "no less than $20" is the only ridiculous statement I've seen on the issue. If $13, or $12 is what sells, who are you, or anyone else, to say otherwise? Who gives a damn if the person is "making any money on it". Perhaps the idea isn't to make money but to use/lose less money doing something we enjoy.
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post #25 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbrown View Post
OK This is the end for me because it isn't going anywhere.

As for my signs and profit you are correct labor was not included because anything above material cost and or booth space I consider mine. However I can assure you that my numbers are right. If you don't believe it oh well.

You said "They sell a slimline starting at $2.00. I buy their Hobby Line Slimlines and the finish does not effect the price on them. I have had great success with their" kits. I didn't say that I ONLY buy their hobby line slimeline, but that I but their hobby line. See you don't listen.

Those kits are the same as the PSI Funline kits which are crappy and if your selling those for $20 your ripping people off. I have never had the finish rub off.
The clips are thin, easily bend and the finish is not as good as the PSI slimline. I actually carry one daily, and in my business it has held up just fine. They list it as a hobby kit for a reason. I now that from experience while learning to turn pens with the Funline or hobby kits.

As for the warranty I made a call to PSI and I invite you to do the same if you doubt me. There web site and catalog will be changed because they do offer the lifetime warranty on all pen kits and finishes except the Funline. You know the hobby line you use and sell. Another dig, rather unbecoming.The reason it says gold is because all other finishes are solid material but the gold is plated.

While on the phone with them I asked why other people were selling the Penn State Industries kits for less then they were. Maybe you new this but I didn't Penn State Industries line of pens gets all there pens from I think she said Penn State Woodworking in china. The name of the company was the suprise not that it came from China.

So thanks for the info on Wood N Whimsies. However there is still the matter of the hobby line being sold. You say undercutting hurts everyone and it does if its same quality. I never once said to undercut anyone's prices which you seam to imply. But you said that if a guy can sell it for $13 then so be it. That is undercutting. New Orleans French Quarter had someone selling like 2-3 different color wood pens for like $7 at the flea market. does this hurt me no it's a flea market,I'm not selling there and I will keep a few cheap pens around to show the difference in quality from what I make and the cheap china imports.

Man get off the thing about me not listening. I been posting on here for a very long time and have given good advise helping many people on here. I not only heard the facts but heard the BS as well. Unfortunately you have only heard what you wanted to hear.

Location matters hence the OP don't even live in this country.

You think everyone should agree to a min price so you can make more money. Me I let me work do most of the selling. When did I say that I want a min so I can make more money? Again, not listening. I said that undercutting hurts everyone.

I pointed out that quality matters in price. You introduced at least to me to a new supplier with good prices. However you admit to using the cheaper hobby line in pens which I guess your selling. Again, not listening. I never said I was selling hobbyline. Just that I buy them and have had no issues with them. You shouldn't assume, you know what they say! I came to that conclusion since your upset about people undercutting your prices. When did I say that I was upset at you? For that matter, when did I even mention anything about you prior to your response to my post?What about using inferior materials and wanting top dollar. Again, not listening. I have never advocated using inferior materials and wanting top dollar. You are getting confused in your old age. Whats that called?


You said "I just don't think that you are used to people disagreeing with you, and not giving up."

Really I have a 16,17 and 22 year old, all they do is disagree and not give up. It don't make them right.
Nor does it make you right.

How about you say your last comment and we move on. Then you can have time to load up some pictures of your work in albums for everyone to see. Would love to! I have a bunch on another forum. I will see if I can get it loaded up tonight.

Oh order some good pen kits stop using the crappy ones to sell. Again a weak tactic at making me look bad while not actually addressing what I was saying. You give the rest of us a bad name
It is your assumptions that give you a bad name. Sorry to say, I give no one a bad name. I will stand by my pens 100%.
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post #26 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankp View Post
The difference being, most of these decent pens are being turned by people who aren't trying to feed their families, they're just trying to make a little extra to offset the cost of their hobbies.

Pricing, as rrbrown indicated, has so many variables that saying "no less than $20" is the only ridiculous statement I've seen on the issue. If $13, or $12 is what sells, who are you, or anyone else, to say otherwise? Who gives a damn if the person is "making any money on it". Perhaps the idea isn't to make money but to use/lose less money doing something we enjoy.
Nice attitude!

I am an individual with the freedom of speech. This freedom allows me to say what ever I damn well please.

It also gives you the same freedom to say that you disagree with me.

What a great country this is!
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post #27 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TurninandBurin View Post
Nice attitude!

I am an individual with the freedom of speech. This freedom allows me to say what ever I damn well please.

It also gives you the same freedom to say that you disagree with me.

What a great country this is!
We finally agree on something. I fought for your right to disagree with me and I'm proud of it.
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post #28 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 08:44 PM
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Selling slimline pens

We finally agree on something. I fought for your right to disagree with me and I'm proud of it.
ME to sheeze all the feller wanted to know was what do ya sell the dang pens for

God Bless all
Ken Ward
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post #29 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 08:52 PM
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We finally agree on something. I fought for your right to disagree with me and I'm proud of it.
ME to sheeze all the feller wanted to know was what do ya sell the dang pens for
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