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post #1 of 11 Old 03-23-2014, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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an ongoing experiment

I've had terrible problems with miniwax wipe on poly and other hardening oil type finishes. I tried the various sprays that displace the air in the can and maybe it helped but not enough. My finish still gelled.
Then I tried decanting it off into smaller containers but still had trouble removing all the air and it eventually went bad in the small jars.
I've tried eliminating the air using marbles to take up the space. That's a pain and you have to find something to do with the marbles each time you buy a new can.
I tried putting saran wrap on top of the finish before putting the lid on the containers. It seemed to work but is messy and the finish will still gel in the small containers when half used if you don't put the saran wrap on top every time.
I think I finally have the solution but haven't put it to a full test yet. I bought some Coghlan's Squeeze tubes for storing foods and stuff for camping. I I didn't know if the it would be compatible with the finish so I filled a tube partially. Squeezed all the air out and put it in a plastic bin just in case it leaks or eats up the tube. That was about 6 months ago and it's still working perfectly. I think it's time for a full test.
Mahoney's oil so far has not gelled on me. It just takes too many coats to get the look I want. Most of my bowls are show pieces not users so I prefer either lacquer or one of the wipe on hardening style oils like Minwax wipe on poly or waterlox.
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post #2 of 11 Old 03-23-2014, 08:08 AM
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Very cool idea, but I would keep an eye on it. Some plastics just deteriorate. I had pure Tung oil destroy a plastic squeeze bottle (like a glue bottle).





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post #3 of 11 Old 03-23-2014, 08:32 AM
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blow into the can before putting the lid on

The Carbon Dioxide in your breath displaces the oxygen in the air above the liquid to prevent oxidation or drying and filming over. There are commercial gases that will do the same, Propane is mentioned here:
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...int-shelf-life

I don't know if it will work for other air dry products such as you have?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #4 of 11 Old 03-23-2014, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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I tried the various gasses, Bloxygen, wine preservative, huffing and puffing into the jar. To me it didn't seem to work all that well.
I've had this finish in this container for 6 months or maybe longer now. No deterioration so far. this is my test container so I'll leave it alone for another 6 months and see what happens.
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post #5 of 11 Old 03-23-2014, 11:01 AM
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I have tried various things also and none of them make much difference. Finishes just don't last forever. The things that seems to work better than most is keeping the container in a cool air conditioned location in the summer and not let it freeze in cold weather. I have kept finishes for five years or more without any noticeable problems.

I think that the biggest problem with cans is not getting the rim perfectly clean before resealing it. Also, a dented rim can't seal. I am very careful about keeping the rim in pristine condition and cleaning every last bit of finish out of the groove. All that and NEVER hit the rim with a hammer to reseal the can. If you have to use a hammer, that is a clue that there is a problem and hammering is making it worse. A rubber mallet can be used, but just be careful and don't compensate for the difference between rubber and steel by flailing away at the paint can.

Your food tubes reminded me of one backpacking trip many years ago when I got the bright idea of putting some stuff like peanut butter and jam and cheese spread -- just in case anyone doesn't know about the air pressure difference between the flatlands (about 600 feet ASL where I live) and the mountains where we backpacked (about 9500 feet ASL), it took quite a bit of work to clean all of that stuff from the inside of my backpack. On top of that, the pack was crammed pretty tight and all of the bouncing across boulders combined with the pressure inside the tubes was more than the little clip seals could take.

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post #6 of 11 Old 03-23-2014, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john lucas View Post
I tried the various gasses, Bloxygen, wine preservative, huffing and puffing into the jar. To me it didn't seem to work all that well.
I've had this finish in this container for 6 months or maybe longer now. No deterioration so far. this is my test container so I'll leave it alone for another 6 months and see what happens.
Polyethylene, the material the tube is made from, is still very gas permeable so you are still getting oxygen into your tube. There is still oxygen dissolved in the solvent/finish remaining, even if you have squeezed out the head space of gasses.

As I've stated in prior threads, complete removal of oxygen will accelerate the polymerization of the finish, so its good that oxygen leaks in. However, I would caution you to pay attention to quality of the finish in terms of cure time, appearance, and feel in relation to a fresh supply of the same finish.

FWIW, I think just keeping your finishes in a freezer will give you much longer shelf life than any of the oxygen displacement techniques you have tried.

Regards,
Steve
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post #7 of 11 Old 03-23-2014, 04:04 PM
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Have you ever tried turning the can upside down???

Why don't you use Danish oil??? Never gels.

John T.

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post #8 of 11 Old 03-23-2014, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Yes It does have the "scab" on the bottom this way but the contents continue to go bad it just prolongs it a little.
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post #9 of 11 Old 03-25-2014, 06:14 AM
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I, too, have had the gelling problem. My poly has a shelf life of 90 days after opening, and the tung oil turns to wax after a short time. I have an experiment going also on these things. I put the poly in mason jars and vacuum sealed 1 and purged the other with propane. Same with the tung oil. It's been about three months now and so far so good.
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.
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Self starters won't.
Leak proof seals will.

The worst thing you can do to a piece of wood is
....get blood on it.

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post #10 of 11 Old 03-26-2014, 12:44 AM
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I too had the problem of Poly gelling tried the marbles and everything else out there, it is better to buy a fresh can of poly for your project, better finish.
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post #11 of 11 Old 03-26-2014, 01:46 AM
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It gels with me too , I suspect it does for all of us if we don't use it up in a given time.
I have seriously thought about making it as I need it

http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/finishing.htm
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