Ok I really need some helpful advise - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 01:54 AM Thread Starter
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Ok I really need some helpful advise

I've been asking about lathes on here since I know squat about them but want to learn to turn. Unfortunately I haven't gotten as many helpful responses as I thought. Maybe this is because of the way I phrased it. So lets do this again after I did some research.

First off I'm supposed to go meat the guy this weekend to buy the lathe which we agreed on $75.00 for this lathe with the table and a set of chisels. The first picture is the one he is selling and the second one is the same type model if I'm not mistaken. It is model 113.23881and from what I can tell it is from 1959-1961 error and according to a post on OWWM it is the last American made Craftsman lathe. It has #1 morse taper and allot of the parts are no longer available. However it supposedly has little use and he actually has another one that may or may not be the same model he thinks they are. He originally wanted $100 which he agreed to $75 for the one with the table and originally $50 for the second one which I'm going to try and get it for $25 if possible (if they are the same model)

Questions

Will the #1 morse taper be hard to get parts if I need them. Are they universal?

I know from looking at Sears parts direct that most of the parts if I even need them should be able to be matched or modified things like knobs,springs etc but is there any reason this would be a bad idea?

I figure that an old lathe from 1959 -1961 should be a good piece of equipment. Are there any new important things on newer lathes that would make this old one not worth the time and money?

I'm looking at turning pens and other large items what kind of attachments will I need and can some things be made?

If anyone has any other advise please let me know.[
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Last edited by rrbrown; 08-19-2010 at 07:58 AM.
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post #2 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 05:36 AM
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As far as pens go, you can still get a mt-1 mandrel. The threads on the spindle should be 3/4 by 16, might be a little hard to find as far as chuck inserts but they are out there. if this lathe is a single pipe bed lathe, Sometimes they give you problems staying true in line between tail stock and head stock. before you buy any lathe run the live center in the tail stock out all the way and slide it till it meets the drive center in the head stock they should line up point to point if not you will have problems turning.

Im not a big HF fan but you might want to look at this lathe. and these tools to start you out i still have some of these tools left that i use form time to time..good luck.

Jeff,

"Just because your not bleeding, don't mean your turning safely"..
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post #3 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jeff4woodturning View Post
As far as pens go, you can still get a mt-1 mandrel. The threads on the spindle should be 3/4 by 16, might be a little hard to find as far as chuck inserts but they are out there. if this lathe is a single pipe bed lathe, Sometimes they give you problems staying true in line between tail stock and head stock. before you buy any lathe run the live center in the tail stock out all the way and slide it till it meets the drive center in the head stock they should line up point to point if not you will have problems turning.

Im not a big HF fan but you might want to look at this lathe. and these tools to start you out i still have some of these tools left that i use form time to time..good luck.
Sorry I forgot the pictures but yes it's the single pipe type. I will check it for that alignment. If it's good now could there could there still be a problem later? Sorry if this sounds dumb, but what is the chuck insert for and do they have different ones for different jobs?

I looked at that HF model but wasn't sure about it. since it has a MT #2 are they chuck insert or other things easier to find or betterin some way.

I was hoping I found good deal on some old American machinery and was going to get out fairly cheep. The HF model will cost more then double with the tools but still won't be as much as getting some of the other lathes out there.

Jeff, thanks for the advise, I'm hoping to get a few more opinions later today before I need to make up my mind.

It's hard when I know nothing about a lathe except that it spins things.

Last edited by rrbrown; 08-19-2010 at 08:51 AM.
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post #4 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 09:40 AM
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My guess is that you have not had a lot of response because most people tend to not comment on tools they donít know about. That said, for the price, it should get you started very well. Until you get to bowls 8"+ you should not have a problem. I did have a Jet with the same setup and it served me well for years.
There should be set screw where the tubing meets the headstock if you need to adjust alignment (at least there was on my Jet).
For the price I would buy both. Convert one to a buffing station or even a variable speed grinding station. Or just keep the spare for parts.
You biggest problem may be the lowest speed (too high) but you may be able to change the pulley on one to get the speed down. If you were going to use out-of-round stock for larger bowls I would try to get the low-end speed down to at least 400. Many of the older lathes had a low speed of about 950 or so. Way to fast for a large out of round item.
Mike
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post #5 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 09:46 AM
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I went thru all the confusion and uneasiness of deciding on whether to buy used,get a H/F lather or just get a new small lathe of good quality.I thought used has the disadvantages of no warranty,things may go out right after I buy it.Like the motor or bearings and the parts might not be available.I didnt want the frustrations.I looked at the H/F lathe and the one I ck'd out had some things I didnt like.The tailstock handle was wobbly,the bed was tubular,just didnt seem solid so I felt it would vibrate when turning.I started researching the internet.I wanted something $500 or less,but fairly good quality.I ended up buying a Jet 12 x 20 for $425 at woodcraft.I havent regreted it yet and Im having a lot of fun with it.I did see the same one on C/L,supposedly used once for $325.I figured the most Id be out of is maybe $100 if I didnt like doing turning.I figure Ill just about pay for it with Christmass gifts that Ill be making.Just my thoughts on the subject.I hope it helps ya.Gary

***For the record*** Ive made hundreds of guitar bodies,never put one together and cant play a note.
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post #6 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 02:40 PM
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My lathe is an old Delta from the early '70s and does everything I need it to. It would be nice to have a newer one , especially with easier speed control than changing belts on pulleys, but I'm retired so what does it matter if it takes an extra thirty seconds.

If the table you're talking about is that one in the picture with the vise, this is a no-brainer.
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post #7 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by woodduck99 View Post
My lathe is an old Delta from the early '70s and does everything I need it to. It would be nice to have a newer one , especially with easier speed control than changing belts on pulleys, but I'm retired so what does it matter if it takes an extra thirty seconds.

If the table you're talking about is that one in the picture with the vise, this is a no-brainer.

Unfortunately no the table/stand is the one in this picture.
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post #8 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 04:59 PM
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Richard,

I'm only a couple of steps further along the road than you are but have an even older Sears lathe, if I get any of this wrong I hope somebody will correct me:

1. Morse Tapers are simply a size and shape definition -- so far as I know, one isn't better than the other, and it's as easy to find parts for MT#2 as MT#1. (I even found a pen mandrel to fit my lathe which is not Morse Taper at all.)

2. Check to see whether the tailstock has a live center, i.e. rotates with the spinning workpiece. (If not, does it have a Morse Taper that can be knocked out and replaced with a live center?) Mine doesn't, and so far I've been unable to figure out how to fit a live center to stop the tail end of the workpiece from burning.

3. Features you could find on a new machine that you won't have on one of these old Craftsman lathes:

- speeds outside the range (both slower and faster) that the motor and pulley arrangement on this lathe give you -- and you'd actually know what the rpm is (my antique lathe has 4 speeds, but I have no idea what they are )

- a variable speed motor (saves stopping and moving the drive belt onto a different pulley wheel)

- indexing positions (8 or 12 "stops" to aid in making non-round shapes, eg fluting along the length of a spindle)

There are probably a lot more -- hope this helps,

Duncan

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post #9 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NCPaladin View Post
You biggest problem may be the lowest speed (too high) but you may be able to change the pulley on one to get the speed down. If you were going to use out-of-round stock for larger bowls I would try to get the low-end speed down to at least 400. Many of the older lathes had a low speed of about 950 or so. Way to fast for a large out of round item.
Mike

I thought about the changing the pulley like you said but another option which I'm not sure how it will work is this.

Set it to the slowest pulley speed which is around 900 rpm. I can the run it on a speed control that works induction motors which I already have and tested. I can cut the speed by a 3rd to get to 600 rpm or half to get to 450 rpm. I'm just not sure if it will lose to much power. I think the 600 rpm will work.

That said I think changing the pulley may be better if needed.
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post #10 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 07:02 PM
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Richard, i'm sorry i commented and had to jump off (went to work). i had a Clark lathe just like the craftsman. turned some pens and a few small bowls with the HF Windsor tools i linked in my last post. the problem i had with a single pipe bed lathe was the tail stock will loosen up and hard to keep in line with the head stock. you might start off with your turning to be true but under pressure the tail sock would move towards or away form you causing off center turning.

I agree an old Rockwell / Delta are great lathes, so are the Jet mini and cast iron beds are the way to go, but you sound like you don't want to sink in a lot of money in turning that you might not like doing. is the only reason i linked up HF lathe.



Morse Tapers are simply a size and shape definition as Duncan said, that's machined into your head stock spindle and or the tail stock. the insert i refereed to is a reducer for some of the larger chucks to fit your thread size of this lathe sorry if i got carry away or confused you in any way.

Jeff,

"Just because your not bleeding, don't mean your turning safely"..
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post #11 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 10:53 PM
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Not to beat this Morse taper thing to death, but Morse taper is 5/8" per foot, the numbers MT1, MT2, MT3, MT4 are increasing sizes. Jacobs taper is somewhat steeper I believe. I had an old Black and Decker drill from the '50s, back when B&D still made top-of-the-line tools, motor was shot but the chuck still good. I was able to find a MT2-JT3 adaptor for about $4 plus shipping. Fits my old Delta lathe perfectly.

You can try Enco, MCS Industrial, or McMaster-Carr websites for starters and should be able to find most anything you need in the way of Morse tapers, adapters,etc.
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post #12 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 11:06 PM
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Maybe this is confusing. The lathe is MT2, the old drill chuck is Jacobs taper 3. The adapter has MT2 on one end, JT3 on the other, allowing the drill chuck to be mounted on the lathe tailstock.
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post #13 of 16 Old 08-19-2010, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe this is confusing. The lathe is MT2, the old drill chuck is Jacobs taper 3. The adapter has MT2 on one end, JT3 on the other, allowing the drill chuck to be mounted on the lathe tailstock.
I understand what you were saying and I know about MT1,2,&3 however allot of post on here make it sound like getting MT1 parts/accessories is harder then the ones for MT2.

I just went through the JT 2 1/2 on another thread because he had a bench top drill press with JT #2 1/2 on it and no chuck.

The guy called about the lathe and wanted me to come out tomorrow morning and see if I want it. I hope he has all the accessories for it because then I won't have to worry about it. I guess I will see.

Thanks everyone for the help I'm sure I'll be back asking questions for whatever lathe I get. Like I said earlier I know next to nothing about what pieces I need for what but I'm a fast learner and I have this forum to get help from.
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post #14 of 16 Old 08-20-2010, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Ok I bought the Craftsman but he wanted to keep the other one which was different anyway. I was surprised that it has a Craftsman 1/2 hp motor although it states 14 amps. It has forward,reverse and speed control on the motor so the RPM's can go lower then the 900 with the pulley's. the chisels it came with or a 8 piece set from harbor freight.

As for as the alignment it was really close but the have a set screw on the back side for adjustment. It does have MT1 head and tail stocks but there is no live center on it at this time. the only other problem I see is the knobs or spring loaded and the springs probably could be replaced.

All in all not bad for $75.00 plus he threw in a laminated wood workbench top approximately 24" x 72" x 1 1/2 for another $5.00"

I'll try and get pictures up later.

Last edited by rrbrown; 08-21-2010 at 03:17 PM.
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post #15 of 16 Old 08-21-2010, 11:28 AM
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I recently bought the exact same lathe from craigslist. I wasn't even sure it was a craftsman because mine is missing the pulley guard with the name printed on it. I knew it had a craftsman motor, so I figured the lathe probably was craftsman as well.

I can't really give any feedback on it because it's the only one I've ever used, and I'm pretty new at it as well. I'm happy with it so far anyway. Good luck.
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post #16 of 16 Old 08-21-2010, 01:13 PM
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Richard, I had the very same lathe when I was in high school. Paid $90 for it used way back then.

I think you got a good deal and I would say it will serve you well until you decide if you really like turning or not and then you will be on the slippery slope to new lathes, chucks, tools etc. It's just the way it works!

Have fun and get out there and let the shavings fly. Might I suggest to checking out a local turning club. They can be a great help and will certainly make your turning and learning a lot easier.

John
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