Humbling, frustrating and a learning experience. - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 Old 02-20-2012, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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Humbling, frustrating and a learning experience.

Well, my segmented bowl build thread died a lonely, quiet death. As it should have.

You probably notice I've been hanging out in Woodturning for the past week or so. I have been playing on the lathe during this time as well, days on end.

What I've learned is: I know nothing about woodturning! Well, almost nothing. Although I've used my lathe off and on for the past forty years I am well below expert level.

I've been going through a lot of scrap wood making parts for segmented bowls. I've completed about five with a few others in various stages of completion.

The first one or two where maple and walnut. These woods turn very nicely I discovered. So I thought this was easy, so I tried turning one out of fir, too soft and splintery and chips out just when you thought you had it almost perfect. That was indeed a challenge. It didn't quite get tossed in the garbage but I'll have to give it away, far from sell-able. Then I tried black locust which was equally frustrating for me for totally different reasons. It is very tough wood and seems to dull the tools very quickly. Many trips to the sharpening station.

It kept waiting for one of these segmented bowls to self destruct on the lathe as I kept making them bigger. I found out that they are stronger than I thought when I caught a gouge and broke it loose from the faceplate and also broke my wooden tool rest support board. The bowl survived just fine though.

I've been getting the ring segments glued up nicely with help from my shop made band clamp gizmo. My frustration is in getting the stack of rings glued up without gaps. I don't have a drum sander for getting then flat. I've tried various other mehtods including a horizontal edge sander and a jig a devised for the table saw. The next think to try is a overhead sliding sled for the router. Holding the workpiece down may prove the challenge there. I am not getting uniform thickness nor flat enough as yet.

I am still trying to prefect my Lancelot chain saw carver for roughing out shaping the bowls. I still have to clean up with lathe chisels but I can do 90% of the shaping with the Lancelot. Much less stress and faster ( for me anyway).

Bret
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post #2 of 14 Old 02-20-2012, 11:57 PM
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Looks nice Bret. Don't sell yourself short. Your worst work is my best. Thumbs up.

When it's rustic......it's rustic
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post #3 of 14 Old 02-21-2012, 06:44 AM
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Totally agree with Dominick on this one. You have amazing talent, and it looks to translate to the lathe too. That's a sharp looking bowl. I really like the diamonds in it. Well done.
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post #4 of 14 Old 02-21-2012, 07:28 AM
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You have a lot of skill with the table saw or however you cut your miters. Your pieces are looking great. Now I'll try to answer your problems.
The Lancelot is not the best way to rough out the bowls. First of all it's very dangerous. I use one and will be writing an article about safety using the various angle grinder cutters.
I would suggest buying 2 tools. The are expensive but will do the job. I would get flat scraper about 3/4" wide and a Hunter Hercules tool. http://www.hunterwoodturningtool.com/
I would use the flat scraper to flatten your rings. I used to hot glue them to a plywood disc on the lathe and flatten the front surface with the scraper. A good straight edge and some patience is all that it takes. Flip it over glue it again (I put the glue on the outer edge) and true up the other side.
If you glue up your rings on a flat waxed board one side should be extremely close to flat. You can flatten this side using sandpaper glued to a flat 2x4 that is longer than your largest ring. Just touch it off moving in all directions and check it frequently with a straight edge. You can then glue this ring to your base that is on the lathe. Once it's dry enough to turn flatten that ring using your scraper and your ready to glue another one on. This is a very accurate method because it trues up each ring as it's stacked up.
The Hunter Hercules tool is a very easy tool to use and great for segmented turning. You can turn the inside or outside with it and control the shape very accurately. Personally I still prefer the bowl gouge but the Hunter Hercules has virtually no learn curve and never needs to be sharpened. Here is a video I did showing it's use.
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post #5 of 14 Old 02-21-2012, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john lucas View Post
You have a lot of skill with the table saw or however you cut your miters. Your pieces are looking great. Now I'll try to answer your problems.
The Lancelot is not the best way to rough out the bowls. First of all it's very dangerous. I use one and will be writing an article about safety using the various angle grinder cutters.
I would suggest buying 2 tools. The are expensive but will do the job. I would get flat scraper about 3/4" wide and a Hunter Hercules tool. http://www.hunterwoodturningtool.com/
I would use the flat scraper to flatten your rings. I used to hot glue them to a plywood disc on the lathe and flatten the front surface with the scraper. A good straight edge and some patience is all that it takes. Flip it over glue it again (I put the glue on the outer edge) and true up the other side.
If you glue up your rings on a flat waxed board one side should be extremely close to flat. You can flatten this side using sandpaper glued to a flat 2x4 that is longer than your largest ring. Just touch it off moving in all directions and check it frequently with a straight edge. You can then glue this ring to your base that is on the lathe. Once it's dry enough to turn flatten that ring using your scraper and your ready to glue another one on. This is a very accurate method because it trues up each ring as it's stacked up.
The Hunter Hercules tool is a very easy tool to use and great for segmented turning. You can turn the inside or outside with it and control the shape very accurately. Personally I still prefer the bowl gouge but the Hunter Hercules has virtually no learn curve and never needs to be sharpened. Here is a video I did showing it's use.
Hunter Hercules tool - YouTube

Very Informative! Thank you. I actually thought of the method you described for flattening the rings but have not tried it yet. The tool video was amazing.

The Lancelot is bolted to a tool rest but I agree if it came loose it would be very bad. My experimenting was interesting but if I can get a lathe tool that cuts like the one in the video I wouldn't need it.

I've never used the Lancelot in the hand held manner. I too believe it to quite dangerous that way.

Bret
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post #6 of 14 Old 02-21-2012, 10:14 AM
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I've been using the Lancelot and other cutting tools for about 8 years now. With both hands on the motor and an understanding of what makes it catch and run you can operate one safely.
I award you the inventiveness trophy for using it on your lathe the way you do. I have considered that for flute carving instead of hand held.
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post #7 of 14 Old 02-21-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola Ranch View Post
Well, my segmented bowl build thread died a lonely, quiet death. As it should have.

You probably notice I've been hanging out in Woodturning for the past week or so. I have been playing on the lathe during this time as well, days on end.

What I've learned is: I know nothing about woodturning! Well, almost nothing. Although I've used my lathe off and on for the past forty years I am well below expert level.

I've been going through a lot of scrap wood making parts for segmented bowls. I've completed about five with a few others in various stages of completion.

The first one or two where maple and walnut. These woods turn very nicely I discovered. So I thought this was easy, so I tried turning one out of fir, too soft and splintery and chips out just when you thought you had it almost perfect. That was indeed a challenge. It didn't quite get tossed in the garbage but I'll have to give it away, far from sell-able. Then I tried black locust which was equally frustrating for me for totally different reasons. It is very tough wood and seems to dull the tools very quickly. Many trips to the sharpening station.

It kept waiting for one of these segmented bowls to self destruct on the lathe as I kept making them bigger. I found out that they are stronger than I thought when I caught a gouge and broke it loose from the faceplate and also broke my wooden tool rest support board. The bowl survived just fine though.

I've been getting the ring segments glued up nicely with help from my shop made band clamp gizmo. My frustration is in getting the stack of rings glued up without gaps. I don't have a drum sander for getting then flat. I've tried various other mehtods including a horizontal edge sander and a jig a devised for the table saw. The next think to try is a overhead sliding sled for the router. Holding the workpiece down may prove the challenge there. I am not getting uniform thickness nor flat enough as yet.

I am still trying to prefect my Lancelot chain saw carver for roughing out shaping the bowls. I still have to clean up with lathe chisels but I can do 90% of the shaping with the Lancelot. Much less stress and faster ( for me anyway).

Bret
There are very few people that can do that type of work and not be happy with it or call it humbling. I say nice work and thanks for posting it.
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post #8 of 14 Old 02-21-2012, 12:15 PM
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Very nice work. The diamonds are a nice touch.
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post #9 of 14 Old 02-23-2012, 11:51 PM
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I am thinking I have the Lancelot mentioned. Round chain saw blade that goes on the angle grinder? Its the only tool I have ever said screw it this thing is to dangerous..
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post #10 of 14 Old 02-24-2012, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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I am thinking I have the Lancelot mentioned. Round chain saw blade that goes on the angle grinder? Its the only tool I have ever said screw it this thing is to dangerous..
Yep, that's the one. If it ever got away from you it wouldn't be pretty!

Bret
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post #11 of 14 Old 02-24-2012, 01:46 AM
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Very nicely done. I am very interested in your diamond pattern. I have recently placed a question on a couple forums as to how to make a segmented diamond. Can you please explain your method of making the diamonds. I was unable to get any responses on the other forums outside of read a book. If you have any photos you would be kind enough to share would be even a greater help. Thanks and thanks for showing your work. I hope to get to that level some day.

John T.
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post #12 of 14 Old 02-24-2012, 06:29 AM
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as far as making the separate rings flat for glueing together
look at post 10 in this build thread DMH did
looks like it would work great
and be simple to make

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f13/s...-thread-33612/

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post #13 of 14 Old 02-24-2012, 07:34 AM
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Another method that works fairly well for flattening one side is to make a sanding disc for your lathe. Then hold the ring against the disc gently. It doesn't work for sanding both sides because even though it will flatten that side it might make the piece wedge shaped so your bowl will tilt when done. Of course you could exaggerate it and have one ring tilted left and one tilted right. :) I used so sand one side and then true up the other side by gluing the good side to my already started bowl and truing up the second side after the glue dries.
Doing the one ring glue up is slow but it makes it very easy to align the rings and I will usually round up the inside and outside a little before gluing on the next ring. By the time your done you have very little turning left unless you want a thinner bowl.
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post #14 of 14 Old 02-24-2012, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JTTHECLOCKMAN View Post
Very nicely done. I am very interested in your diamond pattern. I have recently placed a question on a couple forums as to how to make a segmented diamond. Can you please explain your method of making the diamonds. I was unable to get any responses on the other forums outside of read a book. If you have any photos you would be kind enough to share would be even a greater help. Thanks and thanks for showing your work. I hope to get to that level some day.
Start with material that is 3/4" x 1-3/4" and cut a "V" groove in each edge with the table saw set at a 45 degree bevel as in the photo. Then rip the piece into two equal halves, cut a square piece for the diamond out of contrasting wood. Then glue the two halves together sandwiching the contrasting square piece in the middle. Then carefully trim the twos sides to get the diamond perfectly centered once the glue has set. Should end up as a square stock exactly the same thickness as the material you will build the rings out of.
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