Homemade wood mini-scrapers/skew chisels from HSS drill bits?! - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 Old 07-02-2013, 05:43 AM Thread Starter
twingall1
 
twingall1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tetbury, Gloucestershire, South-West England
Posts: 17
View twingall1's Photo Album My Photos
Question Homemade wood mini-scrapers/skew chisels from HSS drill bits?!

Trying to save money by making mini turning tools (for turning chess pieces) with HSS drill bits ground to shape.. Probably should have posted before starting! Anyway, i had a few questions about best methods and also, best sources of HSS steel.

Firstly, Is all HSS steel the same? Any difference between a good quality lathe chisel's steel and an HSS drill bit?

The bits i bought weren't all that cheap, can someone tell me the cheapest source of good HSS steel? I heard masonary nails would do, but they're not marked so i wanted to check..

And finally, for the method: What's the best glue to use? How deep into the handle should i lodge the shaft? What's the best method of lodging the shaft?

A lot of questions i know! Thanks for any help you guys can give.

Here's a couple of pics of my first efforts before grinding to shape:






Many thanks,
Tom
twingall1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 07-02-2013, 07:32 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Baxter, Tennessee
Posts: 3,257
View john lucas's Photo Album My Photos
All HSS is not the same. Some HSS tools hold an edge a lot longer than others. Concrete nails are high carbon steel. You need to anneal them to make tools because they will shatter. The metal is too hard as it comes from the factory.
How far you stick them in the handle has more to do with the length it sticks out. I use about 2" for large tools. Something the size of a 1/4" drill bit will work at about an inch or so.
Twist drill bits aren't the greatest thing to use. They are too stiff and a sideways push can break them. Most people who use drill bits use just a 2" section and mount it in a larger piece of cold roll steel.
Files are good to use if you anneal them. They are too hard and too brittle as they come. Put them in the oven at 325 degrees for 1/2 hour and let them cool naturally. That will soften them up enough to be safe but leave them hard enough to hold a decent edge.
There's a lot to learn about metal when making your own tools. I've learned a lot but still have a tremendous amount to learn.
My favorite mini skew is made from a 3/8" spade bit. Here's a photo of some old tools I bought at the flea mkt.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	spade-bit-skew.jpg
Views:	7745
Size:	12.3 KB
ID:	74487  

Click image for larger version

Name:	old-turning-tools.jpg
Views:	39882
Size:	55.8 KB
ID:	74488  

john lucas is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 07-02-2013, 10:29 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,021
View NCPaladin's Photo Album My Photos
WT Tools and Enco carry “tool bits” in round and square a farily reasonable prices. Ie at WT tool in square stock X 8 HSS is $2.25 or X 6 HSS 5% cobalt is $4.50. Eight inch is the longest they carry but even 6” length gives you lots of tool usage.
http://www.wttool.com/index/page/category/category_id/15887/

Most woodworking tools are M2 HSS. This is the about the lowest classification for HSS but works fine for woodturning.

If you have a dead drill (or see someone throwing one away) it is easy to make a handle. This is a ” chuck from a $2.00 yard sale drill.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Chuck Handle.jpg
Views:	1998
Size:	44.9 KB
ID:	74494  


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin

Last edited by NCPaladin; 07-02-2013 at 10:32 AM.
NCPaladin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 Old 07-02-2013, 01:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Roger Newby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Syracuse, Nebraska
Posts: 506
View Roger Newby's Photo Album My Photos
The shank end of drill bits are soft and will not hold an edge.

http://www.amazon.com/Make-Your-Own-Woodworking-Tools/dp/1565233069/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372784979&sr=1-6&keywords=mike+burton
A lot of information in this book. I have it and recommend it.

Edit: OOPS!! didn't notice the Amazon price. This is a Fox Chapel publication. May have to search a little. I got mine for >$30.

Last edited by Roger Newby; 07-02-2013 at 01:15 PM.
Roger Newby is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 07-02-2013, 04:16 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 95
View jgilfor's Photo Album My Photos
M42 steel (8% cobalt content) works VERY well for pretty much any wood turning use. I use 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 inch round and square pieces (sold in 4 and 6" long sections) for my home made tools of various types. Seems to hold an edge much longer than standard M2 HSS, and doesn't cost much more. Actually much cheaper in the long run.

You can get them for a few bucks a piece on the web through many distributors from Ebay to Grizzly. Just do a search for HSS or M2 or M42 steel bits or inserts.
jgilfor is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 03-06-2014, 06:48 AM Thread Starter
twingall1
 
twingall1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tetbury, Gloucestershire, South-West England
Posts: 17
View twingall1's Photo Album My Photos
Forge/heat treatment required?

Thanks for the tip: I bought a couple of 4" rod blanks of M42 steel. It hoodsa good edge and i'm pleased.
I just wanted to know: On one site selling m42 steel in bulk, they gave directions about heating/forging, and how to cool slowly after this. Am i right in thinking that most blanks bought would need this kind of treatment to make them their strongest/hardest? Or have i got this wrong?

Also- Could you hazard a guess as to what steel exactly the top brands of woodworking tool use?

Many thanks,
Tom
twingall1 is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 03-06-2014, 06:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Baxter, Tennessee
Posts: 3,257
View john lucas's Photo Album My Photos
Don't know your source but HSS is difficult to harden at home. It requires very high temperatures and precise temps along with precise times and sometimes even special envelopes to put the steel in.
It's very easy to harden high carbon steel drill rod which is why I use that in my shop.
You can buy prehardened HSS and simply grind the tips to shape.
john lucas is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 03-06-2014, 09:18 AM
Senior Member
 
Dave Paine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 7,222
View Dave Paine's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by twingall1 View Post
Also- Could you hazard a guess as to what steel exactly the top brands of woodworking tool use?
The earlier replies stated this. The most common steel is M2, especially in the UK where you reside. The vast majority of the Sheffield steel used by the likes of Sorby, Henry Taylor, Crown, Hamlet, Ashley Iles is M2.

Not sure of the Asia sourced tools. They rarely state the alloy, just "HSS" - if anything.

There are alloy steels and there are powdered metal steels like CPM-10V used by the likes of Doug Thompson.

As the other replies mentioned you have to look at the tempering of the metal in addition to the alloy/composition.

An earlier thread. A complicated topic.
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/me...working-39647/

Heat treating can make the metal hard but brittle, as mentioned earlier, or hard on the outside but soft on the inside, etc.

If you want to make you own tools, it is worthwhile to learn something about heat treatment, quenching, etc.
Dave Paine is offline  
post #9 of 10 Old 03-06-2014, 09:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Alchymist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,304
View Alchymist's Photo Album My Photos
I gather up old printers and dismantle - they contain several steel rods of various sizes, some square, some round. Seem to be pretty good steel. I harden them with a propane torch after grinding to shape. Granted the rods are smaller, 5/16" is about the biggest I've seen, but work fine for the smaller tools. Old files also work quite well.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	NEW2.jpg
Views:	2541
Size:	92.9 KB
ID:	90420  

Attached Images
 

Alexis de Tocqueville was a very smart man.
Alchymist is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 03-06-2014, 12:18 PM
Senior Member
 
Bill Boehme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1,059
View Bill Boehme's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by twingall1 View Post
.... Am i right in thinking that most blanks bought would need this kind of treatment to make them their strongest/hardest? Or have i got this wrong? ...
Tom, you will need to specifically ask about any steel that you buy. Often, but not always it is in the annealed state which means that it would need to be quench hardened followed by tempering so that is isn't brittle. I don't believe that M42 steel would be the best for cutting tools. Hardness is not the main thing that you need to find in a tool steel. For woodturning tools, a steel with a high vanadium content (2% or greater) provides edge toughness and reasonable hardness.

BTW, using a twist drill can be dangerous -- the sharp edges can dig into the tool rest and the twisted part of the drill is actually quite thin ... and even more importantly is very brittle. I'm sure that you have experienced smaller drill bits snapping if they catch while drilling.

Bill Boehme
My Photo Gallery

Last edited by Bill Boehme; 03-06-2014 at 12:22 PM.
Bill Boehme is offline  
Reply

Tags
chisel, gouge, grinding, handle, turning tool

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Countersink drill bits rookiewoodworker General Woodworking Discussion 7 09-29-2012 12:30 PM
Mini circular saw drill attachment david_mackay00 Power Tools & Machinery 2 04-17-2012 02:19 AM
Tapered drill bits [email protected] Tool Reviews 2 09-27-2011 01:58 AM
Drill bits nblumert Power Tools & Machinery 13 11-23-2008 06:09 PM
irwin drill bits Ben H Tool Reviews 2 01-29-2008 08:13 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome