Help with basic terminology... please.. - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 11-17-2019, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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Help with basic terminology... please..

I have an old Shopsmith lathe.

In the main drive portion I have a drill chuck assembly slid over a 5/8" inch spindle set with a hex screw. I made a redneck lathe drive utilizing this this by welding a small lag bolt to a bolt shaft and welding a 3/4 inch washer over that. I then bent the washer into a u shape and sharpened the edges of it. I drill a 3/4" x 3/8" inch hole in the drive end of the piece that I am working and the washer slides in and bites into the end of the wood to drive it. On the other end I have a small sharp bearing spindle with a 3/4 inch sharp ring. I drill a 3/4 inch hole about 3/16" inch deep on that end to support the other end. This has worked well for making handles and whatnot but I would like to start turning some other things and therefore need to buy some parts.

From some searching I found that I need a special collar to go from the smooth 5/8" shaft to a threaded piece for modern lathe chucks. I think that is what they are called anyways...

I do have a question, is there one specific size and thread to all of the lathe chucks? I am finding it difficult to find information of the threaded size and the tpi of the lathe chucks and have been unable to come to any concrete conclusions yet.

As well as a lathe chuck assembly I am interested in picking up a round plate with screw holes holes such as one might use on making a simply bowl etc, but I have no idea what term to use to look them up and have been unable as yet to find a picture of what I want accompanied by a name or technical term. Can anyone help with that?

I am also seeing on videos where people have a nice telescoping drill setup on the far end from the drive, again I am missing the terminology and part names of what to type to find the things that I am looking for. Even if I find the parts I am also unsure what is possible with this Shopsmith or how its sizes compare with other more modern lathes and associated parts. I have been amazed a how inexpensive much of this stuff is that I have found, though inexpensive or not it won't do me much good if it won't work on the machine.
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post #2 of 13 Old 11-18-2019, 09:03 AM
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There are certainly other sizes but a very common headstock thread size is 1 x 8 TPI.

I found this diagram online -

Help with basic terminology... please..-wood_lathe_parts_diagram_labeled.jpg

David
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post #3 of 13 Old 11-18-2019, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Well that would have been stupidly simple for me to look up a lathe parts schematic wouldn't it... lol...

Was helpful though, thanks.. Knowing to use the term headstock got me to what I was looking... Wood lathe "faceplate". I couldn't for the life of me manage to get a picture of one of those on my friggin screen no matter what words or combination of words I used. That was getting a tad frustrating... I saw many of them in use on youtube videos but no one ever once mentioned the name of the dang thing. I kept just using the general term lathe parts or adaptors but then I literally looked through hundreds of pages of stuff without seeing a single "faceplate".

Now the only big remaining question I have is about what different threaded collette sizes there may be and whether there is just one "tpi" thread pattern generally used? As I have to get a collette adapter for this Shopsmith to use a threaded faceplate or a threaded lathe chuck it would be handy info to know. So far it appears that everything "appears" to be a standard pattern with the same diameter threaded collette and tpi, but there has to bigger collette sizes to accommodate larger machines and I have seen very few things where "everyone" used the same threads per inch on something.

P.S.. Okay actually I do have another question, the wife and I watched videos of lathing on youtube until about 5 am this morning and I heard the term negative rake tip quite a few times on numerous different videos. It appears that a "negative rake" keeps you from gouging too much material too quickly, is this correct? What exactly does the term "negative" refer to in this scenario?
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post #4 of 13 Old 11-18-2019, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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We will try the picture thing for the first time... wish me luck... lol...


As I have noted in previous posts I have an old Shopsmith Lathe that I found in one of the shop bays when I bought this farm years ago. It did not have a drive belt on it so I jerry rigged a drive system for it.



I used an old idler pulley from my former rototiller which had outlived it's useful lifespan many years back... I found a small v belt pulley and used the old belt from my rototiller and mounted externally on the drive shaft and spindle.



I used a pin with a keeper welded to a nut with a bolt run through to position and tension the idler pulley. It ended up not being long enough and I needed something to stabalize the bolt so I placed an old socket on the head of the bolt to rest against the machine. Then another nut to lock it down and voilla worked like a charm.



My drive is "not good"... I rednecked a simple drive system years ago to use the lathe, it is a bolt shaft with a lag bolt screw welded to it. I then slid a nut over the lag and welded it in place and slid over a washer and welded it to the nut. Then I bent the washer into a u shape and sharpened the edges so that it would easily bite into the wood end. I drill a 3/4 inch x 1/4 inch deep hole at the drive end for the unit to sit within. When I tap the end of the piece with a hammer it drives the washer and lag screw about 1/2 inch deep into the end of the work and the outside of the bent washer is shouldered on the outside by the 3/4 inc diameter x 1/4 inch deep recess drilled into the end of the wood. I also drill a 3/4 inch x 3/16 inch recess on the opposing end to shoulder over the tail stock. As scary as it may sound it has actually worked quite well even when doing green 6 to 7 inch poplar branches and green hardwood branches it is quite stable. I would at this point like to move away from "redneck" to buying the parts that I need to drive things the way that they should be driven, my system severely limits my capabilities.


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post #5 of 13 Old 11-18-2019, 07:13 PM
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I like your creativity and ability to use what you have, whether it's slick and polished or not. Good job!

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post #6 of 13 Old 11-18-2019, 07:22 PM
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I totally agree with David.
very resourceful way of getting what you need.
I come from a long line of family that came through the Depression Years with
little to nothing and making do with what they had.
I really admire you and your wife's enthusiasm for the hobby.
beware: it CAN be addictive pretty quickly.

and - welcome aboard !!

.

.
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post #7 of 13 Old 11-18-2019, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smith_inFL View Post
I totally agree with David.
very resourceful way of getting what you need.
I come from a long line of family that came through the Depression Years with
little to nothing and making do with what they had.
I really admire you and your wife's enthusiasm for the hobby.
beware: it CAN be addictive pretty quickly.

and - welcome aboard !!

.

.

Most of the people that raised me grew up in the Depression years, most of my foster homes as a child were farms and ranches and my foster parents older people who were children or young adults during the depression. Resourceful and self reliant would well describe all of them.
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post #8 of 13 Old 11-18-2019, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Here are a couple other things that I made for the lathe a few years ago. I made a little system to mount to my sawmill so that I can cut octagonal lathe blanks for the mill, works pretty well.



I also use dowels for some of my wood working and bridge building, drilling holes in wood and pounding glued dowels in to hold them in place, dowel material is not particularly cheap so I made a small unit to allow me to make my own dowels from branch material laying around.



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post #9 of 13 Old 11-19-2019, 04:16 PM
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This may be of interest to you, it is old information but explains woodturning quite well:

http://sawdustmaking.com/Woodturning/intro.htm
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post #10 of 13 Old 11-20-2019, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Nice.... Somehow after 6 years of being here I was kicking around the middle bay of the shop looking for anything metal basically around 4 inches diameter (thinking like old 4 inch circular blade) that I could jerry rig a simple faceplate from. I happened to look down and picked up a four inch in diameter metal plate and lo and behold it just so happened to be the original faceplate for the Shopsmith. Go figure the crazy odds on that... Now I don't have to order one and wait for it to get here, especially this time of year.



In studying what I would need to set up a tailstock drill chuck I soon found that lathes use the same Morse taper that drill presses use, so I went out to my oldest drill press that I bought back in 96 or 97 and popped out the taper and chuck and installed that in the tailstock. Now I have the ability to drill utilizing the tailstock assembly.



I did notice while installing the Morse taper and chuck on the tailstock that I have a fair bit of play towards and away from the headstock and no side to side or up and down play. It immediately seems to me that there should be no play in the assembly at all, but I did get to thinking that maybe the play is purposeful to keep you from being as likely to create a bind between the tailstock and the headstock. Is this possible? At any rate it seems as though my material could vary up to 1/32 inch or so from center when out of balance on the tailstock end and that seems a bit concerning to me.

I am going to also have to make something to lock the back of the Morse taper from turning when I run the headstock into the bit for drilling, but that should be a simple affair.

The only things left to come up with at this point is the adapter to take me from the 5/8 drive shaft to a 1 inch thread for the lathe chuck and a lathe chuck now.

Ed

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post #11 of 13 Old 11-21-2019, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainGuardian View Post
[...]
P.S.. Okay actually I do have another question, the wife and I watched videos of lathing on youtube until about 5 am this morning and I heard the term negative rake tip quite a few times on numerous different videos. It appears that a "negative rake" keeps you from gouging too much material too quickly, is this correct? What exactly does the term "negative" refer to in this scenario?
The term "negative rake tip" normally refers to carbide tipped turning tools.

Background:

There are various kinds of turning tools available. Gouges, skew chisels, and scrapers are examples. In the old days, you sharpened those tools yourself, and there are many ways to sharpen them. Current versions of those tools are made with harder high speed steel (HSS), but they still require frequent sharpening.

A newer category of turning tool is one that takes replaceable carbide tips. Carbide is very hard and very durable, so carbide tips last longer than standard HSS tools when turning. The idea is that when the carbide is not cutting well enough, you can rotate it around to expose a fresh edge. When all the edges are used up, you replace the carbide tip with a new sharp one.

Carbide tips come in various shapes, such as round, square, rounded-square, and diamond (pointed tip). Usually the tool is designed to support the back of a specific tip, so you can't put a square carbide tip in a round tool, for example. In general, most woodturners use carbide tipped tools as scrapers. You keep the tool flat on the tool rest, and gently press the edge of the carbide tip against the center of the rotating turning, thus scraping away the wood.

HSS vs. Carbide

Some people prefer HSS turning tools, some prefer carbide tipped turning tools, and many people use both, like me. Which tool (or tip) you choose depends on what you are turning, plus a lot of personal preference and experience. Just because carbide tipped turning tools are newer does not mean that they are better. Each type of tool has its own advantages and disadvantages, and the way you use them can be quite different. As I work, I switch tools often, and have no compunction about going back and forth between HSS and carbide. Whatever works, right?

HSS and carbide tools are different in how they are used. It is probably safe to say that carbide tools make it easier to get decent results for beginners, but they can be limiting compared to the more traditional HSS tools. HSS tools require more learning and practice (including sharpening skills!) but you can learn to do a wide variety of cuts with them.

Important Note: Some spindle tools should never be used for faceplate turning, like bowls. See my comment about safety, below.

Negative Rake Carbide Tips

A typical carbide tip has a flat top, with a beveled (angled) edge underneath. That flat-topped sharp edge can cut rather aggressively, and it can "catch" on the wood.

A negative rake carbide tip has a bevel on top with a slight downward angle. That downward angled bevel meets the normal underside bevel around the edge. When you present the tool to the wood, the downward angle makes for a less aggressive cut. The edge is still sharp, but it touches the wood at an angle instead of flat on.

Note that the sum of the top angle (negative rake) and bottom bevel angle is different than a traditional carbide tip with a flat top. That makes a negative rake carbide tip different than simply presenting a standard tip at a downward angle.

I have not tried a negative rake carbide tip for myself. I get by with raising the tool rest slightly, lifting the tool handle, and presenting a standard carbide tip angled slightly down. It is not the same as a true negative rake tip, but it works well enough for me.

One VERY IMPORTANT Final Note:

Some people fail to appreciate the dangers of a woodturning lathe. A lathe can severely injure you just as fast as a table saw or other power tool. Be sure you have a full understanding of lathe safety practices before you start turning anything.
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post #12 of 13 Old 11-21-2019, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Now that was an explanation.... Thank you...

Every secondary question that was forming in my mind on the subject has also been answered.
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post #13 of 13 Old 11-23-2019, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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I got a couple more parts added to the lathe today. I realized that I could chuck my moris taper live center into my drill chuck to extend it out a bit further allowing me to do bowls or vases more easily as the Shopsmith has the material sitting very close to the tail end of the lathe with no room to work.



As I do not have any kind of tool stand I went ahead and rounded up some junk and jerry rigged one together today.



I used this setup to test my first piece today.. A simple vase like shape so far, tomorrow I will attempt to drill it using the drill chuck assembly. Quite happy with it all so far...



I did this today from a small piece I cut off of a Western White Pine branch, I wanted to see if it was turnable enough to act as a good source of practice material as I have tons of this stuff already dried. I think it was a success myself...

Ed
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