Frustrating!! Help finishing a pen !! - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 39 Old 03-19-2012, 11:15 PM
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Well you know my method of applying CA so I won't go into that again. I do believe anyone who finishes up with a skew should never have to start sanding with 80 grit paper. Man that is extra work for nothing gained. 600 or 800 grit to just even things up and alot of times I don't even bother. When I did those segmented pens I shown, not one piece of sandpaper hit them.

With that said you will need to find your own method but i can give you some more pointers. The wood you are using is an oily wood. I would wipe the blank down after all the sanding is done with acetone and let dry. I would then seal the wood with a coat or 2 of thin CA. As I mentioned it is imperative to seal the ends of the blank also so that when you wet sand the water does not get under the CA by wicking through the ends.

I do not like the use of accelorator as I had mentioned in previous post. You must know if the accelorator is compatable with the CA you are using. All CA glue is not the same as some would believe. Fogging will most likely be caused by moisture. The CA has not had sufficient time to dry. It is still outgassing.

When MM the first few grits will cause the blank to dull but will continue to get shiny as you go up in grit size or actually down in grit size depending how you want to look at it.

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post #22 of 39 Old 03-19-2012, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTTHECLOCKMAN
Well you know my method of applying CA so I won't go into that again. I do believe anyone who finishes up with a skew should never have to start sanding with 80 grit paper. Man that is extra work for nothing gained. 600 or 800 grit to just even things up and alot of times I don't even bother. When I did those segmented pens I shown, not one piece of sandpaper hit them.

With that said you will need to find your own method but i can give you some more pointers. The wood you are using is an oily wood. I would wipe the blank down after all the sanding is done with acetone and let dry. I would then seal the wood with a coat or 2 of thin CA. As I mentioned it is imperative to seal the ends of the blank also so that when you wet sand the water does not get under the CA by wicking through the ends.

I do not like the use of accelorator as I had mentioned in previous post. You must know if the accelorator is compatable with the CA you are using. All CA glue is not the same as some would believe. Fogging will most likely be caused by moisture. The CA has not had sufficient time to dry. It is still outgassing.

When MM the first few grits will cause the blank to dull but will continue to get shiny as you go up in grit size or actually down in grit size depending how you want to look at it.
I finish my last pen with the skew and sure does speed thing up . Do you think mineral spirits would work instead of acetone ? This time I did seal the wood but since I don't have thin CA I used medium and I think it worked fine I will order one though as for the accelerator I've order a different one see how that one works. Do you get those light scratches after you finish your pen? Is there a way to avoid/get rid of them? Once again I appreciate your help.
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post #23 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
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This is what I'm talking about
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post #24 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 01:03 AM
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Looks to me like you need to use the micro mesh again. Are you getting those swirls around the whole perimeter, or just on one side of the pen? If it's just one side, you may be using a bent mandril, which is leading to you only getting the sanding and MM to most, but not all, of the pen. The little that's left is the swirly region you see. Is there any vibration in the bushings, or are they dead smooth while turning?
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post #25 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 01:19 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Itchytoe
Looks to me like you need to use the micro mesh again. Are you getting those swirls around the whole perimeter, or just on one side of the pen? If it's just one side, you may be using a bent mandril, which is leading to you only getting the sanding and MM to most, but not all, of the pen. The little that's left is the swirly region you see. Is there any vibration in the bushings, or are they dead smooth while turning?
Yes I'm getting those swirl around the whole pen I think the mandrel / bushings are ok
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post #26 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 02:18 AM
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No I'm dry sanding , one question though do you sand between CA coats? Cause I notice surface gets rough after each coat.
If you are having rough areas it sounds like the glue is building up because your not applying it correctly. I use paper towel squares folded a few times and while it's spinning (higher speeds) apply a small dot on the paper towel and wipe across one side repeat for the other side then hit it with accelerator. Then do another coat the same way. I do not use the same area of the paper towel for the next coat. I fold it over or replace it. I also will sand after 3 coats because even applied right will leave some area's that can build up and cause problems. I apply probably a min of 6 layers of Med CA. If it gets rough your usually better off sanding through the CA and starting over so try and get it to lay flat and even.

I start with 150 grit sand while spinning and go through 600. You have to stop and sand length wise after each grit to remove ridges. Then I use MM 1500 -12000, then canuba wax and finally a polishing compound.
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post #27 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 02:35 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbrown

If you are having rough areas it sounds like the glue is building up because your not applying it correctly. I use paper towel squares folded a few times and while it's spinning (higher speeds) apply a small dot on the paper towel and wipe across one side repeat for the other side then hit it with accelerator. Then do another coat the same way. I do not use the same area of the paper towel for the next coat. I fold it over or replace it. I also will sand after 3 coats because even applied right will leave some area's that can build up and cause problems. I apply probably a min of 6 layers of Med CA. If it gets rough your usually better off sanding through the CA and starting over so try and get it to lay flat and even.

I start with 150 grit sand while spinning and go through 600. You have to stop and sand length wise after each grit to remove ridges. Then I use MM 1500 -12000, then canuba wax and finally a polishing compound.
What grit do you sand with after the 3 coats? I notice it gets worse when I sand the CA I get Clouding and dull spots . The only way I could avoid this was not using the accelerator and skipping the first 3 MM , but like I said I get a shiny finish with these light scratches/swirls I'm guessing it's the MM.. ??? See the pictures so you can see what I mean. Thanks
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post #28 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 02:45 AM
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What grit do you sand with after the 3 coats? I notice it gets worse when I sand the CA I get Clouding and dull spots . The only way I could avoid this was not using the accelerator and skipping the first 3 MM , but like I said I get a shiny finish with these light scratches/swirls I'm guessing it's the MM.. ??? See the pictures so you can see what I mean. Thanks

Light pass with 800 or 1000 depends on what I see.
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post #29 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 07:50 AM
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Hi All,

Been reading this thread with interest, and watched the video too. I'm sorry to interrupt this thread, but I'm just starting turning and pens really interest me.

However I have a couple of stupid questions. What does CA and MM mean? I'm in the UK, so it may be brands I'm not familiar with, or does it mean Contact Adhesive?

I want to build a complete pen making set up, and can understand the basics of the pen hardware, but I'm confused as to what tools, finishes and liquids etc. I would need in addition to my lathe. Can anyone give me a list of everything I would need to get started please?
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post #30 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 08:15 AM
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Clockman, That is amazing you do that work without sanding, awesome. I think you're right, I was starting with 80 before I could use a skew at all, and haven't changed but could probably start at a higher grit now.

OP, Looks like you are getting closer with every post. Good post for the rest of us to learn from. Good luck.
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post #31 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 08:35 AM
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I used to have similar problems until I learned the importance of sanding lengthwise with the lathe stopped between grits. You also could try a product called Abranet instead of sandpaper. It's a little expensive but it almost never wears out, can be cleaned and works great wet.
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post #32 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 08:55 AM
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Clockman, That is amazing you do that work without sanding, awesome. I think you're right, I was starting with 80 before I could use a skew at all, and haven't changed but could probably start at a higher grit now.

OP, Looks like you are getting closer with every post. Good post for the rest of us to learn from. Good luck.

Mose

Yes I don't mean to be negative but if you are finishing with a skew you should go right to CA or at least start at 600 to 800 grit paper. To me why sand at all unless you have uneven spots. You are introducing more scratches and swirls and starting at 80 grit those are pretty deep. By the time you get them out working the steps up you now have decreased the diameter of the blank and you will need to build the CA up. If I used sandpaper on the segmented blanks I mentioned I would get so much cross contamination the lighter colored woods would be a disaster.


CA stands for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate There are many brands of this super glue which at times is what it is called.

MM stands for micromesh. This is a sanding pad that comes in colored pads and each pad is a particular grit. Pen makers use these for their final sanding of finishes to bring to a high shine. http://www.pennstateind.com/store/micromesh-sheets.html


Being from the UK you may want to check this site out. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...play.php?f=161 I am sure they will be able to help you find what you need over there.

As far as the OP goes. I do not use mineral spirits for cleaning. It has a waterbase and an oily base. To me you are adding the very thing you want out.

The scratches you see are sanding scratches. When using the MM do not skip the lower grits because they are what set the foundation of the rest of the pads. Yes they will dull the finish because the grits are courser but as you go up it will polish out. Now it is hard to tell if the swirls started with your sanding before MM. But when ever you sand wood always stop the lathe and go with the grain of the wood. Wipe the blank down and proced to next grit size. Do this with the MM pads for the first 3 or 4 grits also. The harder and slower you push on the pads the deeper the scratches are going to be. Keep the pad moving side to side and keep wet which helps lubricate the sanding slurry. You should notice for the first few grits a sanding slurry and that is normal. Depending if you applied enough coats of CA you will not sand through this. But even though you are using med CA you still need to apply a decent layer of CA. That is why I like a min. of 8 coats. I know I can't sand through that.

Good luck you are getting closer. When you find that sweet spot of finishing you will be very happy with the results. Now of course along the way you will run into problem woods and weather conditions that will change the playing field but good luck.

John T.
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post #33 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 08:55 AM
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CA IS Cyanoacrilate (spell?) glue...basically a form of superglue or super glue is a form of it...MM is Micro Mesh...a sanding material that goes from 1500 grit to 12000 grit.
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post #34 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 08:56 AM
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Jt beat me to it :) and is a better speller.
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post #35 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 09:00 AM
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Jt beat me to it :) and is a better speller.
By milliseconds

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post #36 of 39 Old 03-20-2012, 09:16 AM
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Clockman,

No negativity taken, it's good pointers for me and everyone else reading. Maybe I'll give it a try this week.

I think we're all waiting for a tutorial on those segmented pens because they are incredible.
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post #37 of 39 Old 03-21-2012, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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Just an update guys ... I Finished a test piece and it came out real nice (I think )... Im not able to see any scratches or clouding I followed everyones methods and sure helped I'm going to try now another pen and hopefully I get it right I'll keep you guys posted.
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post #38 of 39 Old 03-22-2012, 05:55 AM
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Being from the UK you may want to check this site out. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...play.php?f=161 I am sure they will be able to help you find what you need over there.
Thanks for your help JT much appreciated... and that is a really informative forum you linked, BUT it's further away than you guys, as it's based in Australia!!

Best, Chrome
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post #39 of 39 Old 03-22-2012, 07:04 AM
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[QUOTE=Chrome;319629]Thanks for your help JT much appreciated... and that is a really informative forum you linked, BUT it's further away than you guys, as it's based in Australia!!







http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/p...ng-t17907.html

John T.
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