craftsman 113.228360 cheapo wood lathe - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By holtzdreher
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 Old 02-28-2013, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
toolguy1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: westchester cnty, ny
Posts: 1,302
View toolguy1000's Photo Album My Photos
craftsman 113.228360 cheapo wood lathe

i've a question about the captioned lathe, that i got for $20. i'll preface this by saying i'm a WW, but not a turner. i've no real interest in turning at this point, but for $20, i rounded out my tool arsenal with a lathe (of sorts), which was the only type of WW tool i didn't have. my question involves the tailstock.

here is a link for the lathe's OM:

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/5739.pdf

specifically, is the center spur (part l) supposed to rotate within the spindle tail stock (part f)? or is the work piece supposed to rotate on the center point (part z) that sits within the center spur (part l) that is held by the spindle tail stock (part f)? should anyone know of a video addressing this tail stock question, a link would be appreciated.

there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.
toolguy1000 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 02-28-2013, 11:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Baxter, Tennessee
Posts: 3,257
View john lucas's Photo Album My Photos
Based on the parts manual what you have is called a dead center. You lubricate that with wax and the wood rotates on the point as well as the cup center. No one uses that anymore. It does work but it burns the wood and screams at you when you turn due to the wood friction against the dead center.
What you need is a live center. they aren't very expensive. You need one to match the taper of the tailstock. I didn't look in the manual to see what it is. It's either a #1 or #2 morse taper. You can buy them at a lot of the wood working places and especially the woodturning stores.
john lucas is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 02-28-2013, 11:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Dave Paine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 7,221
View Dave Paine's Photo Album My Photos
I think the lathe did not come with what is called a live centre.

The spur would be installed in the headstock and so would turn with the headstock.

The tailstock is obviously stationary. A live centre is needed to use the lathe. This has the relevant morse taper of the tailstock and typically a cone shaped point with a bearing in between to allow the point to rotate with the piece.

If you want to understand the many ways wood needs to be "chucked" in a lathe, this is an excellent video. Not a quick review. It is almost 1 1/2hr long, but worth watching to understand the many ways in which wood can be chucked in a lathe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUXil-5dEeo
Dave Paine is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 Old 03-01-2013, 12:44 AM
Senior Member
 
duncsuss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,609
View duncsuss's Photo Album My Photos
There are 2 things about that manual which will cause no end of confusion.

First, on page 7 there are some typing errors ...

The part in the diagram which is labelled L is not a center spur, it's a center cup, and it goes in the tailstock spindle (part F, which sits in part E with part G as an adjustment handwheel).

The part in the diagram which is labelled M is a center spur. It goes into the headstock (K) and provides the drive power to the piece of wood positioned between those centers.

Second, there has been a terminology change since that manual was written.

In their glossary of terms on page 5, they say that a SPUR CENTER is also called a LIVE CENTER because it turns.

Not according to modern terminology. A spur center is a spur center, but it isn't a live center.

A live center is a device which has a free-spinning front cone, typically with bearing races to reduce friction. You can't drive anything with it because of this free-wheeling attribute.

In today's terminology, a live center goes in the tailstock, in place of a cup center (which as John points out burns the wood since it is a dead center, meaning it doesn't spin freely.)

Hope this didn't pile more confusion on ...

Please visit my website, Fruit of the Lathe
duncsuss is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 03-01-2013, 10:43 AM
No Longer Here, BY CHOICE
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,442
View BassBlaster's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolguy1000 View Post
i've no real interest in turning at this point


Untill you figure out how it works and actually turn something!!!!!!

RRBrown, knottscott and many others were banned, they didn't just leave. They were banned for standing up to the new owners that are destroying this site. Come join us all at woodworking chat, the best new woodworking site on the net!!
BassBlaster is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 03-02-2013, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
toolguy1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: westchester cnty, ny
Posts: 1,302
View toolguy1000's Photo Album My Photos
am i correct that this pic on VM shows the same lathe with a live center?

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoind....aspx?id=15636

also, here's a copy of the OM:

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/5739.pdf

om page 31, in the section dealing with accessories, does the Ball Bearing Center with No. 1 M,T, Shank (fourth item down on the left) seem to be the live center option?

there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

Last edited by toolguy1000; 03-02-2013 at 10:27 AM.
toolguy1000 is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 03-02-2013, 12:07 PM
Senior Member
 
duncsuss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,609
View duncsuss's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolguy1000 View Post
am i correct that this pic on VM shows the same lathe with a live center?

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoind....aspx?id=15636
yes, the thing in the tailstock looks like a live center to me

Quote:
also, here's a copy of the OM:

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/5739.pdf

om page 31, in the section dealing with accessories, does the Ball Bearing Center with No. 1 M,T, Shank (fourth item down on the left) seem to be the live center option?
Most likely that's it.

Please visit my website, Fruit of the Lathe
duncsuss is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 03-02-2013, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
toolguy1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: westchester cnty, ny
Posts: 1,302
View toolguy1000's Photo Album My Photos
does this look like a live center that would work with my cheapo lathe?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/MT1-LIVE-CEN...item4d03b7bbda

there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.
toolguy1000 is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 03-02-2013, 06:56 PM
Yea i got wood
 
robert421960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Rockholds Ky
Posts: 3,015
View robert421960's Photo Album My Photos
yep that should work
robert421960 is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 11-30-2018, 01:10 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 2
View Retired2016's Photo Album My Photos
Spindle tail-stock

I just picked up the same model 113.228360 and the tail stock spindle is causing the center cup to wobble inside the spindle. I can not fine a replacement for it. Does anyone have any ideas for me? I am retired and just starting out, put my first piece of wood in and it flew right away. When checking the center cup, it moved and spun by hand with a lot of play such as a wobble. I am also new to this thread.
Retired2016 is offline  
post #11 of 13 Old 11-30-2018, 03:31 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 25,952
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Here's your answer, post no. 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by john lucas View Post
Based on the parts manual what you have is called a dead center. You lubricate that with wax and the wood rotates on the point as well as the cup center. No one uses that anymore. It does work but it burns the wood and screams at you when you turn due to the wood friction against the dead center.
What you need is a live center. they aren't very expensive. You need one to match the taper of the tailstock. I didn't look in the manual to see what it is. It's either a #1 or #2 morse taper. You can buy them at a lot of the wood working places and especially the woodturning stores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired2016 View Post
I just picked up the same model 113.228360 and the tail stock spindle is causing the center cup to wobble inside the spindle. I can not fine a replacement for it. Does anyone have any ideas for me? I am retired and just starting out, put my first piece of wood in and it flew right away. When checking the center cup, it moved and spun by hand with a lot of play such as a wobble. I am also new to this thread.
The hole in the tail stock is tapered to a specific type, Morse no. 1 or Morse no. 2. If it wobbles, chances are your "dead center" is a no. 1 and the hole is a no. 2 Morse taper. Forget the dead center and order a live center in Morse taper no. 2, which is larger. I did not check that ebay link, but it's older and may not work any longer.... I donno? But a no. 2 live center will be easy to find on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MT2-Live-Ce...MEzC:rk:5:pf:0

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is online now  
post #12 of 13 Old 11-30-2018, 08:07 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 650
View holtzdreher's Photo Album My Photos
The cup center is what is called a dead center. When I learned to turn in the dark ages, there were no live centers. As noted above, you lube it with wax or heavy weight oil and just let the wood turn against the dead center. Yes it builds friction, but it is only to hold the tail end of the wood steady. so if it starts smoking, it is too tight, or not lubricated enough. Back in the Dark ages of the 1960's it was the only way we had.

If you get a live center for the tail stock. That cup center makes an interesting drive center for the head stock. You use the friction of the cup center against the wood to turn the piece. If you get a catch, the wood simply stops spinning and your gouges into the wood from tool holding mis steps is not as catastrophic as with a spur center. I do mostly spindle turning and I really like using the cup center in the head stock for smaller pieces.
gmercer_48083 likes this.
holtzdreher is offline  
post #13 of 13 Old 12-01-2018, 02:34 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 2
View Retired2016's Photo Album My Photos
The dead center

Iím not sure what piece thatís being talked about but there are three pieces. The piece Iím needing is the outer piece tail stock that has threads on the outside where a wheel turns it to tighten against the head stock, also has an outer flat notch that is used to tighten into place. Seems that there is no taper on the inside causing the center cup to wobble. I will go see a wood turning shop with my complete tail stock, hope it helps from what all of you are saying, thanks
Retired2016 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vintage Craftsman wood lathe on local Craig's list Dave Paine Woodturning 0 12-16-2012 03:40 PM
I love Visors... even el-cheapo ones. Chrome Woodturning 5 07-10-2012 08:32 PM
Craftsman Wood Lathe rcruz12 Power Tools & Machinery 4 12-12-2010 12:31 AM
El-cheapo HVLP gun at Harbor Freight bzbatl Wood Finishing 10 03-15-2010 06:26 AM
Help with el cheapo cabinetry please. Double T Wood Finishing 7 02-19-2010 10:50 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome