Will this joint work? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 10-05-2017, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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Will this joint work?

Hello I came up with this idea to join three parts, I do not know if it even makes sense. The vertical part is like a leg for a workbench; most of the force will be from upside down but it will have to withstand lateral forces too.

I was thinking about 6x6" for the vertical leg and 6x4" for the horizontal parts.

https://imgur.com/a/nARLW
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post #2 of 20 Old 10-05-2017, 06:59 PM
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yes, it will work, but .....

It will be a whole lot of work to make the joint, times 4 for each leg.
The size of your timbers doesn't make sense however for a workbench..... overkill by at least an order of magnitude. It would look great on a coffee table or some where that would allow it to be exposed.

The joint is reminiscent of the Japanese joinery methods, very cool but requires a Master's touch to execute.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #3 of 20 Old 10-05-2017, 07:28 PM
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Cool looking joint. Looks like alot of work. How about something more like two dovetails?

... turning perfectly good wood into firewood every day ... :smile3:
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post #4 of 20 Old 10-05-2017, 07:59 PM
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The joint shown is more for show than for strength. I certainly wouldn’t waste it on a workbench.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #5 of 20 Old 10-05-2017, 08:02 PM
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Out of wood I don't like that joint. I think the first time you have some real lateral stress on the joint the fingers are going to break off. It's just too much wood removed from the members. If it were metal it looks like it would last forever.
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post #6 of 20 Old 10-05-2017, 08:38 PM
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Interesting, I think it might be worth trying on something of a smaller scale so it would be easier to cut. If it works out you might have a signature woodworking technique that you could use elsewhere.


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.
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post #7 of 20 Old 10-05-2017, 08:58 PM
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It is an interesting joint, probably overkill for a workbench, but would certainly be a signature joint as Terry Q says on some furniture pieces.

“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”
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post #8 of 20 Old 10-05-2017, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
It will be a whole lot of work to make the joint, times 4 for each leg.
6 times :D

Quote:
The size of your timbers doesn't make sense however for a workbench..... overkill by at least an order of magnitude.
Are you not suggesting I should use half inch size timber :O


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The joint is reminiscent of the Japanese joinery methods, very cool but requires a Master's touch to execute.
Well it's a hobby, I have time...
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post #9 of 20 Old 10-05-2017, 10:10 PM
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I like the joint, if for no other reason than it shows creativity. I agree that 6x6 is too large for legs but I guess that depends on how you intend to use the bench and what stress it is designed to take. Are you going to glue these? And are you cutting these by hand? I am a champion of overkill and love thinking outside the box so go for it!

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

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post #10 of 20 Old 10-05-2017, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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OK - what is a joint considered very strong to connect three parts at 90 deg to each other? I could start from there and then see if I can complicate it :)
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post #11 of 20 Old 10-05-2017, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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Are you going to glue these? And are you cutting these by hand?
To be frank, I do not know yet. I surely admire the "Japanese" style and the concept to not use screws; glue... I have not decided yet! One thing I liked about this design (that I conceived at night, when I cannot sleep) is that the dovetail interlocks the other two pieces and keeps them together

I would definitely use some mechanized help to remove the excess material, relief cuts etc... it's many inches of material if I decide to use 6x6, 6x4... But I am going to finish mostly by hand


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Oh, and welcome to the forum!
Thank you. Sorry I started right away with questions without posting about me, but I really wanted to hear opinions!
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post #12 of 20 Old 10-05-2017, 11:35 PM
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You'll need to make the dovetail smaller and offset it to the inside so the "fingers" on the outside are substantial enough to take a rocking stress.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
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post #13 of 20 Old 10-06-2017, 12:56 AM
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That's a very fancy joint ya got there. I like it, it's overly complicated but I like it. Definitely would like to see it when it's finished.

"Dreams are stronger than poison and seize more firmly than disease, once captured one can not escape. It's a real curse, but for adventurers who are dedicated to it, body and soul, people without dreams are more frightening than death" (Made in Abyss). The Twenty Seventeen anime of the year, it definitely deserves that award. It's a show you don't expect to throw you off as much as it does. It may be Moe but it's certainly not lighthearted, just the opposite.
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post #14 of 20 Old 10-06-2017, 05:26 AM
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modify it?

Remove one of the fingers on the left piece to allow the other two to be thicker. Try it and see how it works.

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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #15 of 20 Old 10-06-2017, 10:02 AM
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I'd probably go 4x4 rather than 6x6, unless your bench is huge. That's what I have on my bench, and I've never felt like they needed to be stronger.

The joint is definitely neat, and might work really well, or might not. I'd suggest building a test piece: get a few 2' sections of 4x4 (or 6x6), cut the joint, and then abuse it. I'd probably try screwing the two top rails to something solid and then whacking the leg with a heavy mallet: see where it breaks, if it breaks, and how much pressure it would take to do it.
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post #16 of 20 Old 10-06-2017, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manoweb View Post
...(that I conceived at night, when I cannot sleep)...
That's when I do some of my best design work! My wife will ask in the morning, "So what did you design last night because you SURE didn't sleep much." What that means is 'She' didn't sleep much because I was awake - LOL!

I agree with @amckenzie4 on making a test joint and stressing it to the point of breaking or finding that you can't break it. You might also try one like @woodnthings suggested and see if you like it that way. As long as this is a hobby and you're not in production or on a deadline then test away. Just make sure you share the results with us, photos included.

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post #17 of 20 Old 10-06-2017, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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OK I'll probably do some modifications and then test it. Yeah this is surely not a production job :D
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post #18 of 20 Old 10-06-2017, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by manoweb View Post
OK I'll probably do some modifications and then test it. Yeah this is surely not a production job :D
What you have to remember with wood it's going to break in the same direction as the grain. In your initial design I see it being weak here.
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post #19 of 20 Old 10-06-2017, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah the fact that wood is anisotropic (especially the cheap wood I'd use) greatly adds to the challenge.
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post #20 of 20 Old 10-16-2017, 10:03 AM
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What's wrong with mortise and tenon? Drawbore the tenons for extra lateral strength.

It does look like a fun experiment though, I have to admit. Good luck, whatever you decide.
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