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post #1 of 15 Old 02-13-2012, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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White Oak project

Okay I have some questions...

I am in the process of acquiring a large amount of quarter/rift sawn white oak boards. They will have a visible surface area of 5" when finished and are 1" thick. Most of the boards will be long.

1) I plan to use a tongue and groove router to turn them into flooring. Is there any place where I can get a guide or tips on how to do this efficiently and with great results? I am determined to complete this personal project, even if it ends up looking somewhat rustic, but the better results I can get, the better of course. Oh and should they be end matched?

2) Is it necessary to plane both the top and bottoms of these boards prior to installation or should I just worry about the tops? Should I even bother planing them at all or just let the floor sander handle it all? Do I need to create stress relief channels on the bottom of the boards? If so, can you recommend the right bit for that?

3) Finally, I will be getting this lumber 'green' so I will need to dry it. About a month ago I got some of the same stuff which had been drying outside for like 2-3 months. When I got it the moisture meter seemed to read somewhere around 18% for most of this wood. However, when I got it I brought it inside my house and stacked it with stickers in the spare bedroom. After just a month the average I am getting is now about 9%. I have not noticed any real problems at all. The door to the room stays shut and it seems to be the warmest room in the house. I also have the ceiling fan on, like 24/7. Is this a good method for drying wood and is this almost like having a kiln? Would it be advisable to use this method even for wood which has just recently been cut? I live in the Mid-south and around here I am worried about insect infestation. Those damn wood boring worms and termites seem to be everywhere. If I pretty much 'need' to keep it outside for a few months before bringing it inside my living area then I might be forced to use some sort of borate based insecticide to pre-treat the wood. I would rather not have to do this though as that stuff is expensive and its not really what I want to have inside my bedrooms


Expert advice would be very appreciated.
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post #2 of 15 Old 02-13-2012, 06:46 PM
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I would do all your planing and machining Green then store Flat to dry. Research Optimal Moisture content for your region. When ready bring to site to acclimate in the house for minimum 72 Hours.

Machining after drying IMO will open them back up to Moisture and cause Problems

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post #3 of 15 Old 02-13-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
I am worried about insect infestation
I would have it kiln dryed. Take the temp up to 160 deg to kill all insects. It will also stabilize the entire load evenly. Too many variables with air drying. You can plane just the finished side if you want. I skip plane everything to the same thickness on both sides, then pick the best side. I also do relief cuts on the bottom. I wouldn't worry about end matching, if it's dry you won't get much shrinkage in that direction. Good luck & have fun.
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post #4 of 15 Old 02-14-2012, 10:45 AM
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Oak can be tricky.
Leave it too thick and it'll face check deeply and badly. I've had it fall apart in my hands from checks.
Fail to stack & sticker it correctly and it'll face check deeply too.
When air drying white oak I have found that it dries best if kept a little moist because rapid drying face checks it. I sticker it tightly and cover it with a poly tarp.

Lots of people cut it almost to it's finished thickness while it's still green. This helps it not check up so badly.

A smooth finish on the stacked wood also is important because smooth slows moisture transpiration.
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post #5 of 15 Old 02-14-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim douglas View Post
I would have it kiln dryed. Take the temp up to 160 deg to kill all insects. It will also stabilize the entire load evenly. Too many variables with air drying. You can plane just the finished side if you want. I skip plane everything to the same thickness on both sides, then pick the best side. I also do relief cuts on the bottom. I wouldn't worry about end matching, if it's dry you won't get much shrinkage in that direction. Good luck & have fun.
jim
+1. I would also opt for KD, and acclimate. I would joint one face, joint one edge, plane the other face. Sawcut/joint other edge, and use a T&G bit set like this.






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post #6 of 15 Old 02-17-2012, 11:48 PM
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[QUOTE="creepydrawings"]Okay I have some questions...

I am in the process of acquiring a large amount of quarter/rift sawn white oak boards. They will have a visible surface area of 5" when finished and are 1" thick. Most of the boards will be long.

1) I plan to use a tongue and groove router to turn them into flooring. Is there any place where I can get a guide or tips on how to do this efficiently and with great results? I am determined to complete this personal project, even if it ends up looking somewhat rustic, but the better results I can get, the better of course. Oh and should they be end matched?

2) Is it necessary to plane both the top and bottoms of these boards prior to installation or should I just worry about the tops? Should I even bother planing them at all or just let the floor sander handle it all? Do I need to create stress relief channels on the bottom of the boards? If so, can you recommend the right bit for that?

3) Finally, I will be getting this lumber 'green' so I will need to dry it. About a month ago I got some of the same stuff which had been drying outside for like 2-3 months. When I got it the moisture meter seemed to read somewhere around 18% for most of this wood. However, when I got it I brought it inside my house and stacked it with stickers in the spare bedroom. After just a month the average I am getting is now about 9%. I have not noticed any real problems at all. The door to the room stays shut and it seems to be the warmest room in the house. I also have the ceiling fan on, like 24/7. Is this a good method for drying wood and is this almost like having a kiln? Would it be advisable to use this method even for wood which has just recently been cut? I live in the Mid-south and around here I am worried about insect infestation. Those damn wood boring worms and termites seem to be everywhere. If I pretty much 'need' to keep it outside for a few months before bringing it inside my living area then I might be forced to use some sort of borate based insecticide to pre-treat the wood.

REPLY-post
-
if you get quarter cut white oak, the radial dimension change for 20 -5% would be about 6% or from 12. % - 5 % in normal seasonal change you would expect about 2% movement or a few mm per board so board width is important. If you put it on dry it will gain a few mm per board so you risk buckling. If you put it on at about 8 % , there will be small cracks between the board that the t&g should cover. It is common to put a small 1-2 mm bevel so the sharp edges don't cause trouble in the dry winter. Sometimes the boards are cut more narrow but the 5 inch boards look good. They got away with it wide boards in the days before central heating as homes were porous and the humidity didn't go so low.
2. One inch is thick so you would have to cut deep relief channels to make a difference. You could just run them over a blade set up 1/4 inch or so.Its probably not worth the work as the board should be flat. Good quarter cut board should be consistent and you can reject any boards that warp , twist etc.
Unless you have an exceptional sawyer, I would want to thickness plane the boards to start them at consistent thickness. It would be hard to put in good tongue and grooves without planing the boards.
Planing off the fuzz from the saw on both sides might also improve their fire resistance. It will also let you see the wood to match up the boards and possibly reject or strategically place some unusual boards.
Good quarter cut clear oak should not need jointing. You can cut board to width and hold 4-5 together on edge to pass throuth a thickness planer.
I almost forgot, if there are knots, I usually cut them out before moving the wood inside for the final drying. Knots pull the wood around them into cups and other distortions. They make better firewood than flooring.
3. I have air dried a lot of wood without any problem. Kiln drying does speed up the process if you are in a hurry. One inch oak would need to dry covered in a shed or garage for 3-6 months in non freezing conditions. Good air circulation by natural air movement or the use of fans or both is important. With an expected 70% humidity average, the wood will dry to about 12% MC. If you can paint or wax the ends of the logs before cutting you will prevent some end checking but with quarter cut the loss is less.
When the wood is down to 12% you won't get it any drier unless you bring it into a heated building where the humidity is about 40% so it will dry down to about 8 %. In the north homes get drier in the winter 30% humidity for 3-4 months will get the wood to 6%. A few days won't dry 1 inch oak so the key is patience.
Time your drying to put the flooring down when it's about at 8%. If you leave it at higher humitity than about 45% it will expand again within a few weeks. This applies to non heated or non air conditioned buildings.
The humidity is higher in the south which works in your favour as it is change in humidity that causes the dimensional changes.
I am not knowledgable about the insects in the south. It was an interesting point that a hot kiln will kill them off? The kiln people in your area probably know if their kiln gets hot enough to do that job.
Let me know if this was unclear as sometimes I ramble or get incoherent.
Bob
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post #7 of 15 Old 02-18-2012, 12:13 AM
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That's just way to long.

When it's rustic......it's rustic
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post #8 of 15 Old 02-18-2012, 12:23 AM
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George C would you Please talk to this guy OMG Baaaahaaa

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post #9 of 15 Old 02-18-2012, 09:09 AM
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Point taken. TTFN
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post #10 of 15 Old 02-18-2012, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midlandbob
Point taken. TTFN
I have been on this Forum for awhile now. It was pointed out recently one of my Posts was long with no breaks and run on sentences. It's a tough read. That's the only point to take.We are here to help

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post #11 of 15 Old 02-18-2012, 09:59 AM
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Def Do backside most important. Face Join then mill thickness seal and acclimate immediately . Search this site there is tons of info on it . We just had a similar post on this

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post #12 of 15 Old 02-18-2012, 02:06 PM
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Dear "Masrer"
I re read the posts. The replies were numbered to correspond to the questions.
Are you annoyed that the answer took more than a few lines or that creepy asked multiple questions needing very different answers?
How many woodworkers do their machining before drying?
One inch thick oak will not change much in 72 hours.
Is this the general sentiment that replies must fit on one line of an iPhone?
I should not be so sensitive when referred to as the " guy" with a following expletive. IMO
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post #13 of 15 Old 02-18-2012, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midlandbob
Dear "Masrer"
I re read the posts. The replies were numbered to correspond to the questions.
Are you annoyed that the answer took more than a few lines or that creepy asked multiple questions needing very different answers?
How many woodworkers do their machining before drying?
One inch thick oak will not change much in 72 hours.
Is this the general sentiment that replies must fit on one line of an iPhone?
I should not be so sensitive when referred to as the " guy" with a following expletive. IMO
Did you READ MY POST after you said TTFN Maybe read it again WOW
EVERYONE send me your mailing addresses I'm mailing you all some of Wifeys Xanax WTF apparently you didn't READ IT maybe this pic will show you how a Novel with no breaks can be a bit hard to follow

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post #14 of 15 Old 02-18-2012, 03:52 PM
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Lol.

When it's rustic......it's rustic
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post #15 of 15 Old 02-19-2012, 11:43 AM
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Just watching a CNN discussion on tweets in business etc. the point was made that we should avoid controversy. Sharing ideas and experiences is my goal.
It is a problem of the abbreviated with written comments that you can't see the face etc to get the subtle tells there to know the tone of a writer. Sorry if anything I said was at all hurtful.
I took the "talk to this guy Baa..... Etc as a flame and hurtful. I thought my original answer was apprpropriate given the complex question.
The added subtext with the asystoly was also a message. ?
I enjoy learning from posters and I also enjoy trying to help woodworkers especially with technical problems. My artistic talent is marginal but my technical reading has been a passion.
-
I'm not sure if we can send email with this APP? It is a bit inappropriate to hijack this thread though I think and hope he solved his walnut problem.
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