Tools for dovetails and other joints. - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 23 Old 11-26-2014, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warner Robins, Ga
Posts: 204
View SouthernWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Tools for dovetails and other joints.

hey guys, I have been wanting to explore joinery options to increase my woodworking skills so I was in the shop today and decided to try some dove tails. They worked but were sloppy. I guess not bad for no chisel and first try. Maybe 1/32in gap. Now, I have a dovetail saw but it sucks...BAD. I takes a lot of pressure to cut and takes a long time even in pine. So now what tools should I look for? I know I need stuff to sharpen my chisels but, what saw should I look for? I dont have a lot of money so cheap=good. I looked online and saw I needed to make a marking gauge.
SouthernWoodworking is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 11-27-2014, 12:52 AM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,934
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
You don't really 'need' to make a marking gauge, it just makes the process easier. Hecht, I've seen people make dovetails with a hacksaw and a cheap chisel. As far as tools, id say a decent chisel, which it sounds like you already have, and a good saw. I'm personally pretty fond of Japanese saws, so I'd look for a dozuki

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #3 of 23 Old 11-27-2014, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warner Robins, Ga
Posts: 204
View SouthernWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
You don't really 'need' to make a marking gauge, it just makes the process easier. Hecht, I've seen people make dovetails with a hacksaw and a cheap chisel. As far as tools, id say a decent chisel, which it sounds like you already have, and a good saw. I'm personally pretty fond of Japanese saws, so I'd look for a dozuki
Hmm. Ok, may try again and see if it gets better.
SouthernWoodworking is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 23 Old 11-27-2014, 05:28 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 479
View Billy De's Photo Album My Photos
SW here is a couple of links to threads that I did some time ago hope they can be of some help to you. http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/h...ew-guys-35853/ http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f5/mo...non-how-52790/
Billy De is offline  
post #5 of 23 Old 11-28-2014, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warner Robins, Ga
Posts: 204
View SouthernWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy De View Post
SW here is a couple of links to threads that I did some time ago hope they can be of some help to you. http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/h...ew-guys-35853/ http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f5/mo...non-how-52790/
Thank you for that link!!!
SouthernWoodworking is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old 11-28-2014, 09:17 PM
Senior Member
 
Lola Ranch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 1,389
View Lola Ranch's Photo Album My Photos
mark acurately

For me it is important to mark the dovetail layout as carefully as possible. Some use a marking knife but a prefer a draftsman's mechanical pencil with a #4 hard lead sharpened to a fine point. I have also made some simple little dovetail marking patterns, kind of like a mini "T' square but with a 10 degree angle or so. Less of an angle for harder woods.

On thru jionts, I mark and cut the tails first then use that to mark the pins. I label the two parts of each joint and make sure to put it together with the proper corresponding pieces. With hardwood, I try to split the pencil mark and on softwoods I try to leave the pecil mark.

The hardest part to get accurate for me is the bottom of the tails and pins where I cut it with a coping saw. It's kind of a floppy little blade but I use sharp ones and put a lot of tension on it. I typically rough out the tails on the band saw and clear out most of the material in my blind pins with a drill press and a small fortsner bit and then there is not so much to remove with the chisles.

good lighting, acurate layout, keeping track of the matching joint halves and practice make for quality joinery.

Bret

Last edited by Lola Ranch; 11-28-2014 at 09:24 PM.
Lola Ranch is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lola Ranch For This Useful Post:
erik swanson (12-03-2014), SouthernWoodworking (11-29-2014)
post #7 of 23 Old 11-28-2014, 09:54 PM
Senior Member
 
OnealWoodworking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,128
View OnealWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernWoodworking View Post
So now what tools should I look for? .
PC Omnijig and a nice PC router.

You are welcome.
OnealWoodworking is offline  
post #8 of 23 Old 11-29-2014, 01:59 AM
Senior Member
 
Lola Ranch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 1,389
View Lola Ranch's Photo Album My Photos
hand vs power tools

I have and use a PC dovetail jig, but not the Omnijig. It makes fine joints for production work. For certain pieces I prefer the look of a hand cut joint even if I use power tools to expedite the completion of the project.

Bret
Lola Ranch is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old 11-29-2014, 03:53 AM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,934
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnealWoodworking View Post
PC Omnijig and a nice PC router.

You are welcome.
Eww, power tools :p

In all seriousness though, that is a lot of coin to drop on something. I could see the usefulness in a production shop, and even in a well equipped home shop, but holy crap that's a lot of coin.

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old 11-29-2014, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warner Robins, Ga
Posts: 204
View SouthernWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
Eww, power tools :p

In all seriousness though, that is a lot of coin to drop on something. I could see the usefulness in a production shop, and even in a well equipped home shop, but holy crap that's a lot of coin.
Yea, money is tight for me. $600 is way out of my budget. im having trouble saving for a $300 jointer.
SouthernWoodworking is offline  
post #11 of 23 Old 11-29-2014, 03:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Lola Ranch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 1,389
View Lola Ranch's Photo Album My Photos
fun

Using hand tools to make any kind of joinery is fun for me.

Using a dovetail jig and a router is work, drudgery, noisy and dusty.

Bret
Lola Ranch is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Lola Ranch For This Useful Post:
erik swanson (12-03-2014)
post #12 of 23 Old 11-29-2014, 08:26 PM
Senior Member
 
OnealWoodworking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,128
View OnealWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola Ranch View Post
Using hand tools to make any kind of joinery is fun for me.

Using a dovetail jig and a router is work, drudgery, noisy and dusty.

Bret
The router and dovetail jig can produce some excellent results fairly quickly. If I want a tighter or looser joint all I have to do is raise or lower the bit. You will not find any nails, putty or wood filler in any of my boxes.



The added noise and dust are useful with dog training and must be considered an added 'bonus'.

OnealWoodworking is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 11-29-2014, 08:49 PM
Senior Member
 
OnealWoodworking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,128
View OnealWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
Eww, power tools :p

In all seriousness though, that is a lot of coin to drop on something. I could see the usefulness in a production shop, and even in a well equipped home shop, but holy crap that's a lot of coin.
Could get a smaller jig and PC router for less than 300.00 dollars easily. PC jigs usually come with the bits as well. Could go with different brand names and be up and running for less than that... Or buy used tools and spend even less than that...

I am currently doing a group of @26 or so boxes. I spent less than a day cutting all the dovetails for all the different parts. To do that many cuts by hand would take a good bit longer and not fit nearly as well even if you were a Jedi woodworker of the highest order.
OnealWoodworking is offline  
post #14 of 23 Old 11-30-2014, 01:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Lola Ranch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 1,389
View Lola Ranch's Photo Album My Photos
nice dog!

Just depends on what you are trying to do or how much you have to do. With an oddball situation like this one in the photo, I didn't have much choice but to do it by hand.

Bret
Attached Images
 
Lola Ranch is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Lola Ranch For This Useful Post:
OnealWoodworking (11-30-2014)
post #15 of 23 Old 11-30-2014, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warner Robins, Ga
Posts: 204
View SouthernWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnealWoodworking View Post
Could get a smaller jig and PC router for less than 300.00 dollars easily. PC jigs usually come with the bits as well. Could go with different brand names and be up and running for less than that... Or buy used tools and spend even less than that...

I am currently doing a group of @26 or so boxes. I spent less than a day cutting all the dovetails for all the different parts. To do that many cuts by hand would take a good bit longer and not fit nearly as well even if you were a Jedi woodworker of the highest order.
Yea but I dont do that many joints. Im still in school and just building things to make money and save for in the future. If I ever do this for a living, I would invest a nice tool like that for rapid work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola Ranch View Post
Just depends on what you are trying to do or how much you have to do. With an oddball situation like this one in the photo, I didn't have much choice but to do it by hand.

Bret
Thats a very nice piece. wish I could build like that. I think im just gonna stick to doing it by hand for now. Im gonna make some marking gauges and knives to help with the layout and practice some more.
SouthernWoodworking is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old 11-30-2014, 04:34 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 1
View Maverick81's Photo Album My Photos
Better/good tools can make it easier (and keeping them sharp)....but technique is everything. Marking out accurately. Sawing straight and true consistently. Fine paring technique.

Ill tell you what tools I am working with when I do hand cut dovetails.

I have a set of Narex chisels which i use for all my fine work and give me excellent results in pine and oak.
A Veritas dovetail saw, which along with my Veritas carcass saws and tenon saw, are the pride of my workshop and wouldnt be without them.
I also use a Veritas marking gauge which as been a revalation since switching from the previously standard sliding wooden "pin style" gauges.

Willing to prostitute myself to fund Veritas gear.
Maverick81 is offline  
post #17 of 23 Old 11-30-2014, 09:03 PM
Senior Member
 
OnealWoodworking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,128
View OnealWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola Ranch View Post
Just depends on what you are trying to do or how much you have to do. With an oddball situation like this one in the photo, I didn't have much choice but to do it by hand.

Bret

The work in THAT picture was baddass, to the bone, Jedi woodworker stuff of the highest order.

You sir, have special powers and should continue to use them as often as possible.
OnealWoodworking is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old 11-30-2014, 09:32 PM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,934
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnealWoodworking View Post
Could get a smaller jig and PC router for less than 300.00 dollars easily. PC jigs usually come with the bits as well. Could go with different brand names and be up and running for less than that... Or buy used tools and spend even less than that...

I am currently doing a group of @26 or so boxes. I spent less than a day cutting all the dovetails for all the different parts. To do that many cuts by hand would take a good bit longer and not fit nearly as well even if you were a Jedi woodworker of the highest order.
I wouldnt even think about arguing the usefulness in a production shop, or in a situation where one would need to cut several hundred dovetails. Situation like that, i could see that omnijig more than paying for itself. Im more thinking in the weekend warrior mentality, where one goes out to the shop after work and makes a jewelry box or a dresser occasionally, and only really needs to cut four or five.

Dont get me wrong, if you handed me $600 (or $300 for the little brother) to go out and get an onmijig i would in a heartbeat, i just question the practicality of spending that much on a few joints. That, and im not sure how i feel about dovetails in the first place...

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old 12-01-2014, 09:17 PM
Senior Member
 
OnealWoodworking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,128
View OnealWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
That, and im not sure how i feel about dovetails in the first place...

I dovetailed some plywood drawer boxes just to see what would happen and how hard it would be to do with plywood...

You got to literally beat the hell out of it to get anything to bust loose if you glue the joints and tearout of the plywood veneer is minimal with a good blade (meaning - joints look good).

Very strong joint...
OnealWoodworking is offline  
post #20 of 23 Old 12-01-2014, 10:50 PM
Wood Snob
 
Al B Thayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,963
View Al B Thayer's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernWoodworking
hey guys, I have been wanting to explore joinery options to increase my woodworking skills so I was in the shop today and decided to try some dove tails. They worked but were sloppy. I guess not bad for no chisel and first try. Maybe 1/32in gap. Now, I have a dovetail saw but it sucks...BAD. I takes a lot of pressure to cut and takes a long time even in pine. So now what tools should I look for? I know I need stuff to sharpen my chisels but, what saw should I look for? I dont have a lot of money so cheap=good. I looked online and saw I needed to make a marking gauge.
Making and using a marking gauge would be a great place to start in your quest to hand cut dovetails.

Al


Al B Thayer is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Al B Thayer For This Useful Post:
Lola Ranch (12-02-2014)
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Failing Crown Molding Joints & Failing Trim Joints Go Irish General Woodworking Discussion 21 12-10-2014 06:30 PM
Dovetails.... Help! Drobbins329 Joinery 17 10-16-2013 09:15 PM
Measuring for Box Joints/Dovetails? IrishPsych General Woodworking Discussion 1 09-11-2013 03:56 PM
Dovetails cabinetman General Woodworking Discussion 2 11-03-2009 01:50 PM
Tools for dovetails jodiemeglio Hand Tools 23 09-17-2007 10:50 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome