Stanley 750 Chisel Usage - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 40 Old 02-01-2013, 10:23 AM
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mine is flat on one side and convex on the other side. i think it is made that way on purpose to be able to pinch the blad better. so long as it is held flat against the flat side, it should be square.

were these stanley 750 chisels brand new, or used? if new, i would think they'd be pretty dang close to square ...

Last edited by Chris Curl; 02-01-2013 at 11:10 AM.
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post #22 of 40 Old 02-01-2013, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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BTW, I made 34 cuts with a dovetail saw to define the sides of the bench dog holes. I have 17 bench dog holes.

Tim's suggestion of dividing the area up with more saw cuts to avoid chipping sounds good, but those 34 cuts would become hundreds, which is just a bit too much for hand tool use, I think. I guess I would have to use a tablesaw at that point. My power miter saw doesn't slide and doesn't have a depth stop.

Makes me wonder if my time would have been better spent making a router jig. Ha.
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post #23 of 40 Old 02-01-2013, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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The 750s were new. I was expecting a bit of work from the reviews on Amazon. It's good steel though, and they're beautiful tools. Just require a bit of work to setup.
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post #24 of 40 Old 02-01-2013, 11:14 AM
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what roller jig do you have? i just got one from robert larson, and the smaller jaws for the chisels do not hold the chisel well at all. they can slip and the chisel can easily be held out of of square

it is perfectly fine with plane irons, because they are not thicker at one end than the other.

that makes me wonder if yours has a similar problem, or maybe you got the same guide ...
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post #25 of 40 Old 02-01-2013, 11:17 AM
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You watched the sharpening video from Lie Nielsen and that's a good one. Did you watch their video on tuning the side-clamp "eclipse style" gauge? If you are using this gauge it could also be finger pressure as it has such a narrow wheel that maintaining even pressure on the thin bevel can be tough. Paring wood across the grain flat and even can be tough in soft woods. Do you have a router plane? I think you'd find that it would excel at this cut. The chisel will work fine for it, but the 750's are shorter, and really good at chopping vs. the longer paring action. I'm NOT saying they can't do it well, but some other styles seem to work better for me at least.
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post #26 of 40 Old 02-01-2013, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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link to the video?

I don't have a router plane. It's next on my list. I have a regular router. blah.
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post #27 of 40 Old 02-01-2013, 02:14 PM
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i think he's talking about the video you linked to in your first post in this thread.

those router planes can get expensive ... you can make a poor man's router like this:

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post #28 of 40 Old 02-02-2013, 06:31 PM
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Here's how I would cut this dado using a hand saw and chisels. The chisels I used are a set of Irwing Marples I picked up for $60 and replaced the blue plastic handles with wood. I also had to do a fair amount of flattening, honing and grinding to remove the factory tool marks. But hey, they were $60.


First I marked my perimeter with a knife and highlighted with a Sharpee.
Stanley 750 Chisel Usage-image-2840926267.jpg


Here is one of the chisels. This is 1" wide but I did not use this one for this project. Instead I alternated between a 3/4" and 1/2" chisel depending on how the cutting felt.
Stanley 750 Chisel Usage-image-2728162570.jpg


I cut the boundaries and then kerfed in with the saw. This makes waste removal easier and more controllable.

Stanley 750 Chisel Usage-image-953276722.jpg

If you cut across the grain I find the 1/2" works best.

Stanley 750 Chisel Usage-image-2262339028.jpg

If skewing I will use either the 3/4" or the 1/2" depending on how easily it cuts. Please make note of grain direction and remove the waste gradually. Generally hogging out massive amounts of wood at this stage can chip out in huge chunks and can run too deep. I use light taps with a wooden mallet.

Stanley 750 Chisel Usage-image-4057788444.jpg

After I get down to about the last 1/8" the mallet gets put away and I prefer to pare down to the final depth. Skewing when I can and paying careful attention to whether I'm cutting with, against or across the grain. Take your time and don't rush or you'll take out chunks.

Stanley 750 Chisel Usage-image-1184137039.jpg

Here are the two chisels I used with the finished product.

Stanley 750 Chisel Usage-image-674251821.jpg

It is not completely perfect but will still be a nice solid joint. The small knot had to be worked carefully so it didn't chip out. I figure that after taking out all the interruptions I had it took about 5 minutes start to finish. Of course, if you use a router to clear out the waste it goes considerably faster.
Stanley 750 Chisel Usage-image-1541991108.jpg

Those who say it cannot be done should stay out of the way of the people doing it.
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post #29 of 40 Old 02-02-2013, 06:54 PM
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I just want to throw into the mix that chisel backs should be flat along their entire length, not just near the cutting edge (plane blades it's ok to flatten just the edge).
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/te...ening_a_chisel

A nice trick to see if your back is flat is to catch the refelction from a flourescent tube on the polished back. If it doesn't angle off the tip of the chisel, you did good.

That bowl was perfect right up until that last cut...
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post #30 of 40 Old 02-05-2013, 09:34 PM
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The right tool for this is a shoulder plane?

I'm not sur about your sharpening discussion but is the bottom/back of the plane sharpened as polished as the bevel? Improbably missed that you did but sharp is the intersection of two polished planes. The bottom needs to be sharpened not just flat. Sorry if I missed a point.
I use the same technique as polishing the end of a plane iron
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post #31 of 40 Old 02-05-2013, 11:10 PM
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Shoulder plane is for cleaning/truing the shoulder of a tenon, hence the name.

That bowl was perfect right up until that last cut...
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post #32 of 40 Old 02-06-2013, 05:07 PM
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When i think about it, cleaning a dado is like cleaning a tenon. You are utting flat across grain. i use a shoulder plane. A chisel is much harder to control and not well designed for the needed task.
i must have misunderstood what is trying to be done.
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post #33 of 40 Old 02-06-2013, 06:09 PM
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I just occurred to me that maybe you thought a shoulder plane was only for the end grain part of a tenon?

It's main feature is that the blade goes right to the edge. I is used to clean up and is most valuable foe cleaning the tenon faces and does this very well to fine fit a tenon.
The above cleanup is really the same as a tenon and I stand by my recommendation that that is an ideal tool for the job.
If a chisel is to be used, then sharpening the back is important.
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post #34 of 40 Old 02-06-2013, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midlandbob
I just occurred to me that maybe you thought a shoulder plane was only for the end grain part of a tenon?

It's main feature is that the blade goes right to the edge. I is used to clean up and is most valuable foe cleaning the tenon faces and does this very well to fine fit a tenon.
The above cleanup is really the same as a tenon and I stand by my recommendation that that is an ideal tool for the job.
If a chisel is to be used, then sharpening the back is important.
I use a chisel and see no need to recommend anyone buy additional tools when they have all they need. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Those who say it cannot be done should stay out of the way of the people doing it.
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post #35 of 40 Old 02-07-2013, 07:10 AM
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Many ways to skin the cat. Chisel, shoulder plane, router plane, rabbet block plane....

Personally, I'd chisel the majority and clean the bottom with the router plane. I think woodenhorses method is perfect if you only have a saw and chisel. Just be careful. I also believe in a flat chisel back, more than just the last inch. Flat or hollow. Never convex. I don't think flattness is the issue here, I just don't think it's sharp enough. Also, softwood can be more of a PITA than hardwood since it likes to crush instead of shear. Sharp is very important.
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post #36 of 40 Old 02-07-2013, 12:18 PM
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Talking about other ways to skin a cat.
I talked with a college woodworking instructor on this topic last evening. The technique used there is to use a wood file. THis is also a specialized tool that does the job well. I do use them too but the shoulder plane is quicker. A good mill file only costs < 50$.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...at=1,42524Many ways to to most jobs as has been said.
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post #37 of 40 Old 02-11-2013, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy

Woodenhorse,

That tutorial is awesome. Clearly, your work looks much better than mine.

I decided to pick up "The Complete Guide to Sharpening" by Leonard Lee, shamelessly listed on my blog, since I just finished documenting the books I found most useful while getting into wood working: http://woodworkbyhand.blogspot.com/

"The Complete Guide to Sharpening" has an entire chapter dedicated to skewing the chisel as an effective countermeasure for cutting across the grain, right at the beginning of the book. I was like... "DOH!" I didn't see much else in there that I'm not doing already, except that I'm using a 1000/6000 water stone and may want to upgrade to a 1000/8000 stone to help achieve a sharper edge.

Unfortunately, I read that book AFTER I finished my mortises and dog holes, so I haven't had a chance to try the skew technique yet. Maybe I'll grab a piece of scrap and practice later tonight.

I did try cutting slots at regular intervals to divide the material into smaller chunks. It seems to be easier to remove material that way, but my end results weren't much better.

I had a really hard time cutting the additional dividing lines accurately. Most of my saw lines extended way below the final depth of the joint. I'm using a hand dovetail saw. I only just yesterday realized I could have built a depth stop to assist me this whole time. Double "DOH!"

I suspect my problem is mostly one of technique at this point.
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post #38 of 40 Old 02-28-2013, 02:27 AM Thread Starter
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I bought a Tormek wet grinder to see if it would be easier to use than sandpaper and wet stones for sharpening these Stanley 750s and flattening their backs.

I spent literally 8 hours today with the Tormek trying to flatten the back of my 1" chisel on the side of the Tormek grindstone. I finally got it pretty damn close, though I admit I broke down and used a few scraps of sandpaper at one point.

They really should make a jig for this operation. The Tormek does an excellent job on bevels, but it's not any more efficient than sandpaper at flattening.

Anyway, I ended up feeling more than a little incredulous that anyone ever spent this much time working the backs of chisels in the hey day of hand tools when all they had were crude grind stones. So I went looking on Google and found this article: http://logancabinetshoppe.com/blog/2...-stop-lapping/

If you believe that article (and I'm leaning that way at the moment), nobody gave a damn about flat chisel backs when chisels were used to put food on the table. I think that's pretty interesting. It seems technique is all important.

Oh well, back to sharpening the remaining 7 chisels and 3 plane irons. I'll probably flatten the backs a bit, but I probably won't do a full flattening job like I did on the 1". It's just too much work for no return on investment.
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post #39 of 40 Old 03-01-2013, 10:05 PM
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i think this ruler "trick" was posted early in the thread. Lee Nielson gives out9Or sells) the 6 inch by 1/2 inch stainless rulers so plane blade back polishing can be done easily as mentioned. it works well. A new blade has the last few mm. honed & polished initially taking 10-20 minutes. it's minimal work for the rest of its life. For touch up honing, few strokes starting at 1000 grit etc. keeps the edge polished on both sides=sharp. the amount of "back bevel" seems insignificant.
The water adhesion almost holds the rule but I usually use a very small clamp to hold it on the near edge of the stone, especially if if working a few new blades.. The granite block is still good for truing the water stones.
6000 is good - 13000 is better. Stroping for carving tools but not plane irons.
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post #40 of 40 Old 03-02-2013, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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I read online that prepping the tormek wheel with a diamond T tool (like this http://www.amazon.com/Commando-Grinding-Dresser-Diamond-Deburring/dp/B002KNOK9W ) works better than using the dressing stone the T7 ships with. I had one of these T tools laying around for truing my dry grinder, so I gave it a try last night.

Turns out they were right. It works perfectly now. If it glazes and stops cutting, I just press the T tool against the wheel for a few seconds with even pressure and the cutting action of the wheel is completely restored.

Makes you wonder why they don't just ship the T7 with one of these T tools. Sheesh.

Anyway, I flattened and sharpened three chisels last night in about two hours. That's a record for me. This system works very well. I'm relieved I finally found something that isn't overly time consuming.
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