Scribing and notching green wood - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 4Likes
  • 1 Post By 35015
  • 2 Post By 35015
  • 1 Post By Tennessee Tim
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 8 Old 12-15-2017, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 3
View chipp's Photo Album My Photos
Scribing and notching green wood

Hello, I mostly power carve, but wanted to give it a rest for a couple weeks to help resolve some tendonitis. I've got a scribe and some experience with it, I was thinking of making some chairs with green hemlock or alder, simply don't have the time to wait for it to dry, and dry material is either ridiculously expensive or unavailable. I know there will be some cracking and shrinkage using green wood, I'm just wondering if the shrinkage will completely disfigure the joinery. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks.
chipp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 Old 12-15-2017, 07:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,040
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipp View Post
Hello, I mostly power carve, but wanted to give it a rest for a couple weeks to help resolve some tendonitis. I've got a scribe and some experience with it, I was thinking of making some chairs with green hemlock or alder, simply don't have the time to wait for it to dry, and dry material is either ridiculously expensive or unavailable. I know there will be some cracking and shrinkage using green wood, I'm just wondering if the shrinkage will completely disfigure the joinery. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks.
Using green wood it's completely unpredictable what might happen. It could range from working fine to warping or twisting or completely splitting one end to the other. Just no way to know. That is why it is inadvisable to build out of green wood.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #3 of 8 Old 12-15-2017, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 3
View chipp's Photo Album My Photos
Thanks for your wisdom Steve, I guess I'll give her a go and see how she turns out. I can get lots of green wood for free, if nothing else it will be good practice. Would you recommend oiling the wood and endgrain to slow down the dry process or just let her dry for a fee months before applying oil?
chipp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 8 Old 12-15-2017, 08:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,040
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipp View Post
Thanks for your wisdom Steve, I guess I'll give her a go and see how she turns out. I can get lots of green wood for free, if nothing else it will be good practice. Would you recommend oiling the wood and endgrain to slow down the dry process or just let her dry for a fee months before applying oil?
It depends on what oil you mean and what the finish will be used on the finished product. What lumber you can store and allow to air dry it would be good to dip the ends in gulf wax or coat the ends with Anchorseal.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #5 of 8 Old 01-17-2018, 12:40 AM
Former Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,512
View 35015's Photo Album My Photos
Hello, and welcome!

I'm not quite sure how this post got by me, since this is kinda what I do for a living...Apologies for that.

If you go back through many of my posts here, they are almost always rooted in "green woodworking" to some degree.

To your query:

Quote:
...I was thinking of making some chairs with green hemlock or alder, simply don't have the time to wait for it to dry, and dry material is either ridiculously expensive or unavailable. I know there will be some cracking and shrinkage using green wood, I'm just wondering if the shrinkage will completely disfigure the joinery. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks.
First, good for you for taking this traditional method (and oldest) on for a try!!!

There have been a number of books published on this subject. "Make a Chair from a Tree," is one of the best, yet there are many more. Peter Follansbee's blog is another good source of information, and attending this years "Greenwood Feast" would also be full of great information.

Using green wood is just as predictable as any other woodworking system and to suggest otherwise is too commonly held view by mainly folks that have never worked "green wood," or at least not to any depth of understanding. I make a living from it, and yes...it does move...yet once the traditional systems are learned, wood is more easily utilized, and predicted. I would suggest...better understood...as well.

Its not the "guessing game" so many like to make it out to be...

Quote:
...Would you recommend oiling the wood and endgrain to slow down the dry process or just let her dry for a fee months before applying oil?
You can do both...

It depends on the style, species, and intent of the furniture item made...

Traditional oils only, and I strongly advise against modern finishes of any kind...Especially!!! in green woodworking systems.
Tennessee Tim likes this.
35015 is offline  
post #6 of 8 Old 01-17-2018, 12:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 4,232
View Toolman50's Photo Album My Photos
Interesting to see two entirely different opinions on post from two very experienced woodworkers.
I consider a chair and advanced woodworking project. The labor far outweighs the material cost on most chairs. And to invest the time and effort to make a “set” of matching chairs..

Chairs built from unseasoned wood are readily available as imports from Mexico. Most of this furniture will be considered somewhat rustic to very rustic. The rustic look does limit the design. The legs, arms and splats may be nicely shaped and even carved, but the final finish sets these chairs apart. The finishes most common are very dark oil finishes (think tar and gas) or painted finishes.
For me, a chair made of anything less than kiln dried hardwood is like buying a tube aluminum chair. When you buy it, it sits good, but after time only 3 legs will touch the floor. That’s my 2 cents.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
Toolman50 is offline  
post #7 of 8 Old 01-17-2018, 09:50 PM
Former Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,512
View 35015's Photo Album My Photos
Hi Toolman50,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Interesting to see two entirely different opinions on post from two very experienced woodworkers....
I get away from comments too quick sometimes before a proper editing...

I don't mean for them to always sound the way they do...Apologies if it sound too snarky, or oppositional...That is not my intent at all.

This post was a difficult one, as the information offered by both Steve and myself was indeed very different.

I would also share that I would never attack, contradict, or overtly challenge someone's "opinion," on a topic. I personally think that is rude, and a very poor way to communicate.

As I have stated here (and else where) I make a living from wood...both architectural and furnishing of various forms. Most of the wood I work in (if not virtually all of it...ha, ha) is "green wood." So when I explain something, I'm not sharing an "I think" opinion or perspective. I'm speaking from direct experience, and often over 4 decades worth of it regarding "green woodworking." If Steve's experiences with "green woodworking," and building things from green wood is that much different than my own (et al) then that would be a great discussion to have on its own thread to be sure...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
I consider a chair and advanced woodworking project...For me, a chair made of anything less than kiln dried hardwood is like buying a tube aluminum chair. When you buy it, it sits good, but after time only 3 legs will touch the floor....
I'm really not sure how to respond to that. Since I take it as being an opinion, and your viewpoint of green woodworking, I can not say its wrong or right...

I can share that in my experience it doesn't seem like a very accurate perspective of green woodworking at all...Then again I can't really speak to poorly built imports from Mexico, China or else where that do make into our market a bit to often. In some ways, what was share in comparing green woodworking to "tube aluminum chair" is rather belittling of the work I do? I don't believe my clients would pay what they pay if it was actually that poorly constructed?

If folks here want to work in kiln dried wood and finish with modern finishes, by all means have at it...I just feel that perhaps a tradition that goes back several thousand years (and there are some of us left that know how to do it) should be given the grace and respect of perhaps knowing more about it that others. Again, I don't mean for this to sound snarky...just say'n

Would anyone here call the following examples "...a tube aluminum chair..."...??? All of the following is in the realm of green and/or unseasoned...non-kiln dried...woodworking:










35015 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to 35015 For This Useful Post:
Tennessee Tim (01-17-2018)
post #8 of 8 Old 01-18-2018, 12:12 AM
Sawing against the Wind
 
Tennessee Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: God's beautiful hills of Middle Tennessee
Posts: 2,381
View Tennessee Tim's Photo Album My Photos
Jay,
As usual...BEAUTIFUL!!! Thanks for showing IF it's done correctly, how it WILL turn out. This is ALL about learning the wood, processes and Joinery techniques correctly and in depth. IT APPLIES the same basics to BOTH green or dry whether AD or KD...knowing what the wood will do!! EVEN how finishes affect reactions in wood.

Again THANKS!!!
35015 likes this.

Have a Blessed and Prosperous day in Jesus's Awesome Love, Tim
........www.TSMFarms.com.......... John 3:16-21 ..........
Reveling God's awesome beauty while creating one of-a-kind flitches and heirlooms.
Tennessee Tim is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Tennessee Tim For This Useful Post:
35015 (01-18-2018)
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome