PVA glue disposal and washing tools? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 11 Old 02-12-2014, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Question PVA glue disposal and washing tools?

Hey all!
I have some questions regarding common/best practices as regards the proper disposal of PVA adhesive.
According the MSDS: the glue should never be washed down the drain.
According to my local glue rep: a little bit of thinned out glue won't harm anything
According to my guys on the floor: This stuff is clogging our sink on the reg.
We use paint rollers and cheap-o disposable trays to do quite a bit of laminating in our shop. Although the trays are cheap, I can't afford to be throwing away six a day.
What does everyone else do to wash their tools? (I won't tell the municipal authorities)
Anybody else clogging up their sinks?
Thanks for your input everyone.
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post #2 of 11 Old 02-12-2014, 12:26 PM
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Is that a cold water sink you wash up in ?
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post #3 of 11 Old 02-12-2014, 12:30 PM
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If you wash those trays out with warm soapy the glue will be thinned enough to not cause problems. Now real knowledge, but I'd bet that MSDS warning is about pouring the glue down the drain right from the bottle, something I wouldn't do anyway.

"I long for the days when coke was a cola and a joint was a bad place to be" (Merle Haggard)
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post #4 of 11 Old 02-12-2014, 12:32 PM
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Paint tray liners can be had at retail for 60 cents or so.....rollers for a dollar or so....so to dispose of it all your looking sub 10 dollars?

Now if you wrap your rollers in plastic instead of disposing of them you can probably get a few days out of each...

If you clog the line down stream, and the utility finds out it was you, you can be held liable.....wanna guess which is cheaper, some liners and rollers....or tearing up the street and replacing sewer lines?

The tools don't make the craftsman....
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post #5 of 11 Old 02-12-2014, 02:45 PM
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I have kept a couple of large (pellet) plastic bags of chips and shavings from wood carving.
All my left over glues, acrylic paints and other finishes get poured into the bag.
In there, they bind to the wood chips (not some fish's gills) and dry. As such, those things are
inert and out they go in the wood-only bin at our transfer station.

Washing up, the water volume has to be impressive. Disposal of containers has to be better than down the drain. Can you spray the glue? The custom car shop sprays foam rubber contact adhesives for seat glue-ups. Not much overspray that I notice.

The canopy shop builds with a fiberglas chopper gun & resin. Crap flying all over the place! Trick is, the shop floor is 6" sand. They clean up with a garden rake.

Hope these things give you some ideas.
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post #6 of 11 Old 02-13-2014, 09:39 AM
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I would look into making each roller last until the end of the day by wrapping in plastic or storing in a bucket of water, then toss them each day. The bottom line is that if you are doing enough veneer work to have several guys using multiple rollers applying glue, then the cost of their time spent washing rollers thoroughly is worth more than 3$ per day. That's the cost of the rollers. Seems like a clear cut choice to me.

To answer the how to clean question I'd slightly dampen the rollers before use, and soak then rinse in hot water and dish soap.
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post #7 of 11 Old 02-13-2014, 09:44 AM
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As far as the trays, I just wouldn't use them unless absolutely necessary. Get a large bottle, pour on glue and spread with the roller.

What is your veneer process? Vacuum? What type of veneer? You may find that there's a way to eliminate the problem instead of just making it easier.
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post #8 of 11 Old 02-14-2014, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJones View Post
As far as the trays, I just wouldn't use them unless absolutely necessary. Get a large bottle, pour on glue and spread with the roller.

What is your veneer process? Vacuum? What type of veneer? You may find that there's a way to eliminate the problem instead of just making it easier.
I have two guys working in tandem who need to thoroughly cover (3) 6" x 18" plies quickly, then load those pieces in between curved presses milled from aluminum, and then load those aluminum blocks into our big blue press. They need to do that 9 times in under 8 min to ensure proper glue up. We are using Franklin Adhesives SK8 glue. We have only one press so cycle times are important. If we don't measure their activity in seconds we will have lamination defects due to the SK8 glue's pot life. At our current output we would be throwing away 30 trays a week, and we are a small shop, we can't afford it. I can pay these guys to wash rollers and a tray, but not a glue spreader (which has a set up and break down time of a half hour at best) They have other tasks to do in between pressing.

We press up an assortment of different veneers and plies. All different combinations of domestic and exotic hardwoods.

I certainly don't want to cause troubles for the local sewers, but I am curious as I have never ever seen anyone do anything else than just wash their glue off. As I mentioned earlier though, it is clogging our sink and don't like just throwing chemicals down after it.
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post #9 of 11 Old 02-14-2014, 11:44 AM
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30 tray liners would set you back 20 bucks a week.....are you paying them more than 20 bucks to wash 30 trays a week? I'd bet you are....

The tools don't make the craftsman....
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post #10 of 11 Old 02-15-2014, 10:22 AM
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I have a small shop too so I understand where you're coming from. I would do two things.

First I would get a large tub and keep it filled with hot or warm water with some biodegradable dish soap in it. You could experiment with some vinegar in there too. When someone is done with a roller or tray drop it in the tub to soak. At the end of the day, wash them in the sink. That will probably get rid of most of your clogging issues. They make special equipment for each of these steps but a $10 hefty tub should work fine.

Second I would time how long it takes from the end of glue application to those guys back at production. That includes time walking to the sink, stacking trays to dry, restacking later etc. also factor in time for unclogging the sink once a week etc. Then just multiply that time by their cost to you (not their hourly wage, their actual cost) and compare it to the price of a liner. So if the total time per day for one guy is 8 minutes and he costs you $10hr (conservative estimates) then that cost alone is $1.33. Plus the percentage cost of the tray but we'll ignore it for now. Using the above cost for 30 trays at $20 that's $0.66 per tray. In that situation you are already spending twice as much by washing as you would by replacing.

If you are a startup skateboard maker and the guys are being paid with boards and beers then I might keep washing the trays. If you're full on manufacturing any consultant out there would tell you to toss the trays until you can afford a production method that eliminates them completely. Cut the guys hours by 8 minutes or find them another way to be productive for that time.

From a sustainability perspective you would have to decide whether you preferred sending trays to the dump or chemicals down the drain. Each has a unique environmental cost. Or you may not care either way.
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post #11 of 11 Old 07-24-2017, 11:44 PM
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Hi, My kids are 11 and the new craze at school is making your own slime. The ingredients are borax and pva glue. Yesterday, one side of my sink i couldn't bang a chopstick though the drain, it was rock hard and the other side kept filling up with water. Once the water went down....finally, I got a torch and noticed white hard glue. My daughter had tipped all the experiments that hadn't worked out down there!!!!
Can anyone tell me what i can use to get rid of it or do I have to by a new pvc pipe and exchange it under my sink? Thank you.
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