Newbie with Jointer question - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 05-31-2016, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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Newbie with Jointer question

Hello all

Well I started another mid life crisis and real have been enjoying this wood working stuff. Started because were putting up our 5000 sq ft 6 acre house and down sizing ...Hehehe except for a detached 2.5 high ceiling garage with a 500 sq ft work room and a stand up attic 500 sq ft. :-)

My question is looking at routers and tables your into the 800.00 to 1500.00 market. Looking at a joiner it appears to be a heavy duty version of a planner?? Is it just better to get a joiner/shaper ??

Thank you in advance

PS I did search for planner in joiner section but no answers
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post #2 of 14 Old 05-31-2016, 11:37 AM
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Most woodworking machines require a straight edge to go against the fences on your equipment. If the edge isn't straight, you can't get accurate cuts and it can also be dangerous. Many don't fully understand the importance of a jointer when it comes to all types of woodworking and how it is used.=p
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post #3 of 14 Old 05-31-2016, 05:57 PM
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Woodworkers without a joiner tend to use more sheet materials ( like plywood ) or buy their wood S4S.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #4 of 14 Old 05-31-2016, 06:48 PM
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a jointer is not a (thicknessw) planer

While both remove material from the surface of a board they do it in different ways.

A jointer will straighten and flatten either the surface or an edge of a board. It works by removing material off the bottom of the board.

A planer will take that flat and straight board and reduce it's thickness to a uniform dimension. It works by removing material from the top of the board. It needs a flat and straight surface on the bottom to get a uniform dimension. Planers generally don't work on the edges of boards, but when the boards are stacked side by side they can be used in that manner.

You need both machines to prepare rough sawn lumber for precision cuts on the table saw. The work must be straight and flat to rest solidly on the table and against the fence without "rocking" or twisting which may cause a kickback!

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 05-31-2016 at 09:07 PM.
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post #5 of 14 Old 05-31-2016, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Woodworkers without a joiner tend to use more sheet materials ( like plywood ) or buy their wood S4S.
Blanket statement, totally wrong.

I've been a wood worker for over 35 years and haven't owned a joiner yet. I don't work primarily in sheet goods, and I can't say I've ever bought S4S in anything other than dimensional lumber.
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post #6 of 14 Old 05-31-2016, 07:38 PM
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Agreed!!! I built all of these with no jointer from rough cut unsurfaced wood.

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And a few others I can't find pictures right now.


I've since bought a 6 inch jointer for edge jointing, and I'll agree it's nice to have, but no where near required.

That said, I couldn't have built what I did without a planer.

Given the choice, I'd still take both.
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The tools don't make the craftsman....
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post #7 of 14 Old 05-31-2016, 07:48 PM
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I don't think I could do without my jointer; I use it often. Same with planer but a jointer is indispensable for the type woodworking I do.

Btw, welcome to the forum! It might help your search to use 'planer' and 'jointer' - I haven't searched but thought this might produce some results.
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post #8 of 14 Old 05-31-2016, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoot summ View Post
Blanket statement, totally wrong.

I've been a wood worker for over 35 years and haven't owned a joiner yet. I don't work primarily in sheet goods, and I can't say I've ever bought S4S in anything other than dimensional lumber.
Not totally wrong. Maybe wrong in your case and many others, but I stand on my original statement that most woodworkers without joiners or planers tend to buy S4S lumber or sheet material.
It all depends on what the project is.
I won't get into it being the smarter way.
No I won't get into that.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?

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post #9 of 14 Old 06-01-2016, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Not totally wrong. Maybe wrong in your case and many others, but I stand on my original statement that most woodworkers without joiners or planers tend to buy S4S lumber or sheet material.
It all depends on what the project is.
I won't get into it being the smarter way.
No I won't get into that.
Toolman, to be blunt, if you're a city feller, & just getting started, sheet goods & S4S lumber may be all you know about, or have access to. But with experience, like everything else in life, a feller learns there's better lumber for the money. Whether you've got a table saw, jointer, planer, hand plane, or all four, & if you learn to use the equipment efficiently, there isn't anything you won't be able to do. I didn't have a jointer til 4 years ago. Its a 6" bench top, but does what I need it to do, & more. Beats a hand plane! I didn't have a planer til 2 years ago. Before that, I done everything with a hand plane. The table saw was my first investment for the shop, & is my right hand. I don't use anything but rough cut lumber for my projects, & I'm a scroll sawyer by choice. I think its all in how willing a feller is to learn & use his equipment. If you're scared of it, you'll never learn its capabilities. The lumber & its quality is just part of the equation. Then comes how ya want the project to look. A rule of thumb, ya buy junk lumber, your project will look like junk, too. Just my .02 worth.
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post #10 of 14 Old 06-01-2016, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sawdust703 View Post
Toolman, to be blunt, if you're a city feller, & just getting started, sheet goods & S4S lumber may be all you know about, or have access to. But with experience, like everything else in life, a feller learns there's better lumber for the money. Whether you've got a table saw, jointer, planer, hand plane, or all four, & if you learn to use the equipment efficiently, there isn't anything you won't be able to do. I didn't have a jointer til 4 years ago. Its a 6" bench top, but does what I need it to do, & more. Beats a hand plane! I didn't have a planer til 2 years ago. Before that, I done everything with a hand plane. The table saw was my first investment for the shop, & is my right hand. I don't use anything but rough cut lumber for my projects, & I'm a scroll sawyer by choice. I think its all in how willing a feller is to learn & use his equipment. If you're scared of it, you'll never learn its capabilities. The lumber & its quality is just part of the equation. Then comes how ya want the project to look. A rule of thumb, ya buy junk lumber, your project will look like junk, too. Just my .02 worth.
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I live just outside of Dallas, Tx and I have an excellent supply of hardwoods available to me. I have the machines in my shop to make furniture from a log if I wanted.
This discussion started with my comments on how a woodworker without machinery can best make-do with what tools they have.
There is no need to make a project more difficult than it has to be.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #11 of 14 Old 06-01-2016, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Woodworkers without a joiner tend to use more sheet materials ( like plywood ) or buy their wood S4S.
Can't argue with that, and if they are using rough lumber they are still jointing it, just with another tool, which if you want to split hairs as is becoming all to common around here that tool is a jointer while accomplishing that task.
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post #12 of 14 Old 06-01-2016, 04:03 PM
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Even the manufacturers try to cut every corner they can to speed and simplify the processes.
It's just smart.
A good example would be making a drawer bottom out of solid wood instead of using sheet material. Can it be done with hand tools? Of course it can. But unless your trying to copy an antique authentically, why would you do it ?
We don't need to make our Woodwork any more difficult than it has to be.
And yes, I know how to use a hand plane. And I still do when necessary.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #13 of 14 Old 06-01-2016, 04:08 PM
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If the debate is truly jointer vs. planer, I would say there has to be a secondary question...what other tools do you have? If you do some quick searching of youtube you will find all kinds of videos of how to get around not having a jointer. Most of these techniques require having a table saw and a planer and use of "carrier" boards that are known to square and flat. So that being said, if you have a table saw and you've only got money for one tool, I'd go for the planer. The reason for this is that once you've jointed one face of your wood, you move to the planer because the planer will get the other face parallel and coplanar with the jointed face, you'd never joint both faces of the board, so since you can make the planer mimic a jointer, you could somewhat eliminate the need for the jointer. Just my $.02, but for what its worth, right now my shop has a jointer and 2 planers in it...
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post #14 of 14 Old 06-01-2016, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Sawdust
I live just outside of Dallas, Tx and I have an excellent supply of hardwoods available to me. I have the machines in my shop to make furniture from a log if I wanted.
This discussion started with my comments on how a woodworker without machinery can best make-do with what tools they have.
There is no need to make a project more difficult than it has to be.
good for you, Sir! I live in NW Kansas, I have the equipment to make anything from a log as well, & we don't have ALOT of access to several hardwoods. The small lumber yards we do have keep mostly pine, & some cedar. The next point is, I wasn't tryin to ruffle your feathers, I was merely pointing out the fact that as we learn, we find out there is better wood out there. And, the point that you don't need a jointer or a planer if your budget won't allow it. There are ways to get perfection until you can get into a jointer or planer. I started out with a shop full of nothing, so to speak, & still have most of it. I learned to use tools one at a time. Being self taught, that's the only way I knew to get it done w/the handful of tools I had at the time. My point about learning your tools, was exactly that. If a feller spends enough reading & researching his tools, & learning their capabilities, he don't need a shop full of expensive iron to start out. Its a matter of common sense, thinking things through, & having the ability to make your hands do what your mind comes up with. As far the wood, anybody can destroy a piece of lumber w/o trying. Even you! But using simple equipment for complicated tasks is the joy of woodworking. Whether you're citified or just an ol' country boy like me!

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