Mitered Butt Joints with Splines - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 11-02-2016, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Mitered Butt Joints with Splines

Has anyone had success with this type of joint?

I am making a frame (36" x 25") made from .75" x 3.5" pine. The corners are 45 mitered and butt jointed. The strength will come from 4 splines (keys) cut into the joint.

I am making a sled to hold each corner of the frame wile cutting the splines. Does this look like a reasonable sled design?

I am not sure this type of web link is allowed, but this is the joint I desire...

https://i.stack.imgur.com/bEVIT.jpg
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Last edited by blktoptrvl2; 11-02-2016 at 04:39 PM.
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post #2 of 15 Old 11-02-2016, 06:07 PM
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A spline can strengthen a miter joint. Splined corners are common.
A jig can speed the cuts and add accuracy.
The upper brace is an option. Not needed for many cuts.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #3 of 15 Old 11-02-2016, 06:29 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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splined miters used here

This cabinet in Oak had 48" tall leaded glass doors set in splined mitered frames 3/4" thick. The splines were about 1/4" thick if I recall. I used a RAS saw with the blade laid over horizontal to make the kerfs/dados for the splines. This saved me trying to support the 48" tall frame above the blade in a jig on the tablesaw.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/membe...chen-cabinets/


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #4 of 15 Old 11-02-2016, 06:59 PM
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Your design should work fine. My first choice would have been dovetails. I've also done hidden spline joints on a join like this. I cut a groove in the face of each miter with the table saw and then fit splines with the grain running the same way as the sides. This makes the splines completely hidden (except for the top and bottom) and requires no special jigs to make the joint. One could also use biscuits if the stock is wide enough to fit small (#0), or mini biscuits. I have an old Ryobi mini biscuit joiner that uses biscuits small enough for picture frames.

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post #5 of 15 Old 11-04-2016, 12:44 PM
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Your sled should work just fine and with contrasting keys will give you the desired effect.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

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post #6 of 15 Old 11-06-2016, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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The sled is done and works fine.

Next question is...

how do you mill the keys down to the desired thickness?

My thickness planer wont do the job because the keys are too small to run through it.

I am thinking I need to use my miter saw and keep trying till I get the right thickness.
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post #7 of 15 Old 11-06-2016, 11:25 AM
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A spline in a mitered joint is helpful but I would prefer this method.
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post #8 of 15 Old 11-06-2016, 11:37 AM
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rip the splines/keys on the table saw

Quote:
Originally Posted by blktoptrvl2 View Post
The sled is done and works fine.

Next question is...

how do you mill the keys down to the desired thickness?

My thickness planer wont do the job because the keys are too small to run through it.

I am thinking I need to use my miter saw and keep trying till I get the right thickness.
After ripping them in long lengths you can easy cut the angles on the TS sled rather than the miter saw which would mean working with small pieces close to the blade.

Having long lengths of splines they are easy to trim to the desired angles on the miter saw oor preferraBLY ON THE

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #9 of 15 Old 11-06-2016, 11:56 AM
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mitered vs beveled

There is some confusion regarding the difference between a miter and a bevel. Some definitions combine the terms adding to more confusion.

A bevel, in my experience, is a cut at an angle other than 90 degrees to the width or length of the board or panel. It is accomplished by setting the saw blade on the table saw or circular saw to the desired angle and running the opposite side against the fence. The work is held face down on the table saw not vertically, or on edge.

A miter is a crosscut with the face of the work flat on the table and using the "miter gauge" making a cut at any angle other than 90 degrees, usually 45 degrees to make 90 degree mating parts.

A miter saw can either bevel or miter depending on the orientation of the work ... flat on the table or on edge.
Picture frames are "mitered" not beveled. Cabinet sides are beveled not mitered. Face frames are mitered. Admittedly, this is getting quite specific regarding the terms, but answers to questions are based on the terms used in the question. As in the posts above a "splined miter" can be made in two ways.

You would not be able to make a bevel on a miter saw greater than about 3" because the diameter of the blade limits out. You CAN bevel any length of material on a table saw because there is no such limitation.

JMO. :smile3:

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post #10 of 15 Old 11-06-2016, 01:50 PM
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Technically I believe the joint is a miter or mitre, the cut to make it is a bevel, a box has a bevel cut to the face, a picture frame has a bevel cut to the edge.

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post #11 of 15 Old 11-06-2016, 02:16 PM
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What if I'm making a ...

I am making a 16" square cabinet. I don't want the plywood edges to show so will I miter or bevel them at 45 degrees? In this example, the cut is a bevel, setting the blade on the TS over to 45 degrees and running them against the fence. The faces of the work are flat on the table, and I won't use the miter gauge.

I am making a frame from 3" wide X 3/4" thick stock 36" square. I will miter the corners so they meet at 90 degrees by laying the faces flat on the table saw and use the miter gauge set at 45 degrees. I can also use a miter saw setting the arm at 45 degrees from the fence and achieve the same result.

I am making a drawer box from 3" wide by 3/4" thick stock 16" square. I can set the table saw blade to 45 degrees and use the miter gauge set at 90 degrees and make the bevels. I can also hold the pieces vertically and use a chop saw with the arm set at 45 degrees from the fence. I can also set the sliding miter saw over to 45 degrees and make a 90 degree cut creating a bevel. So, in this example there are 3 different ways to achieve the same result.

Compound bevels and miters. Only a miter saw that has a bevel feature and a table saw can make these combination types of cuts. A standard "chop saw" does not allow for the blade to tilt over, just makes cuts at 90 degrees. The sliding miter saws are limited to the maximum crosscut width at the bevel and miter setting by the diameter of the blade or cutting radius.

So, the cut and it's description has to do with the width of the work and the type of saw used to make it.
When is a miter a bevel? I think I know, but what do you think?

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post #12 of 15 Old 11-06-2016, 02:27 PM
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As I said a miter is a type of joint made by beveling the material, doesn't matter how or what you cut it with.

http://sawdustmaking.com/woodjoints/mitrejoint.htm

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post #13 of 15 Old 11-06-2016, 04:56 PM
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OK, then.

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As I said a miter is a type of joint made by beveling the material, doesn't matter how or what you cut it with.

http://sawdustmaking.com/woodjoints/mitrejoint.htm
So, all bevels are miters? That really clears things up.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #14 of 15 Old 11-06-2016, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
So, all bevels are miters? That really clears things up.
Not really, a miter joint is made by cutting two or more bevels and joining them together, so I guess you can say one use for bevels is to make a miter joint

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post #15 of 15 Old 11-07-2016, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
So, all bevels are miters? That really clears things up.
Not really clear just yet. All bevels are not miters.
When two angled cuts are joined, we call it a miter. Mitered edges are a great way to hide the plys in plywood. Normally a miter cut is 45 degrees but even if the adjoining angle isn't 45 degrees, we still call it a miter as long as it's two angled cuts forming a joint. Example: 45 miter or 22 1/2 miter
Two bevels can make a miter joint when joined together. (correct).
But a simple beveled edge can be applied to moldings, table tops, etc. ( this is not a miter). Beveled edges define an angled edge and can be cut with saws, hand planes, routers, etc. A bevel can be cut slightly or severe and at any angle.
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If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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