Jointing E.Red cedar. - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 Old 01-09-2013, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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Lightbulb Jointing E.Red cedar.

After reading everything I could find, I find myself more confused than anything else.I am going to build a hope chest for my granddaughter.
42" long 20" high 24"deep. I have read that a clamped straight edge with TB11 is great all by itself. The some say use a slot cutter & use biscuits. Then it says if the biscuit isn't a hard as the wood it will be a weaker joint. Then there are the T&G guys, the the glue joint router guys etc etc etc. I want this piece to last her a lifetime. Is their such a thing as a best way to join these boards?

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post #2 of 14 Old 01-09-2013, 03:16 PM
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Yes, there is a best way... Good edge jointing and glue. The rest is all pointless.
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post #3 of 14 Old 01-09-2013, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemedic View Post
Yes, there is a best way... Good edge jointing and glue. The rest is all pointless.
Tom, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel..

+1 with Tom.

Titebond I, II or III is fine.

You just want joint the edges to be straight and fit together with no gaps. You may be able to clamp to close a gap, but it puts stress on the joint and may eventually fail.

If the boards have a dip or a crown, then use cauls to get them aligned, or dowels.

I have seen a lot of red cedar chests with big cracks, even replaced a chest top for a friend last year. This was her grandmothers, or some old family member. I think this was due to the wood loosing moisture in some location over the years and then no surprise cracks can happen.

If you have just purchased the wood, let it sit for a few weeks to get closer to the shop moisture level.

Most of us do not have a moisture meter, but a poor man's moisture meter, is to cut off a test piece, e.g., 1ft and weigh it on an accurate scale. Once it stops losing or gaining weight the wood is at your shop moisture level.
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post #4 of 14 Old 01-09-2013, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Paine View Post
Tom, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel..

+1 with Tom.

Titebond I, II or III is fine.

You just want joint the edges to be straight and fit together with no gaps. You may be able to clamp to close a gap, but it puts stress on the joint and may eventually fail.

If the boards have a dip or a crown, then use cauls to get them aligned, or dowels.

I have seen a lot of red cedar chests with big cracks, even replaced a chest top for a friend last year. This was her grandmothers, or some old family member. I think this was due to the wood loosing moisture in some location over the years and then no surprise cracks can happen.

If you have just purchased the wood, let it sit for a few weeks to get closer to the shop moisture level.

Most of us do not have a moisture meter, but a poor man's moisture meter, is to cut off a test piece, e.g., 1ft and weigh it on an accurate scale. Once it stops losing or gaining weight the wood is at your shop moisture level.


Thanks for the reply, You 2 Tom. What does "If the boards have a dip or a crown, then use cauls to get them aligned," mean?
This wood was cut 3 or 4 years ago and has been sitting in a barn in Al. I let it sit here in Florid for the past few months. My bud delivers a wide verity & of lengths
(some over 20 ft) & thickness from 1/4 " to 2 1/2 ". Is there any way to avoid cracking down the line ? Once I start picking out the pieces I'll start with pics.& show the progress.
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post #5 of 14 Old 01-09-2013, 07:35 PM
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+2 with Tom
If you do a proper glue joint, the wood will crack before the glue joint does.

Learning more about tools everyday
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post #6 of 14 Old 01-09-2013, 08:01 PM
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Dave, when have I ever held back?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glassnwood View Post

Thanks for the reply, You 2 Tom. What does "If the boards have a dip or a crown, then use cauls to get them aligned," mean?
This wood was cut 3 or 4 years ago and has been sitting in a barn in Al. I let it sit here in Florid for the past few months. My bud delivers a wide verity & of lengths
(some over 20 ft) & thickness from 1/4 " to 2 1/2 ". Is there any way to avoid cracking down the line ? Once I start picking out the pieces I'll start with pics.& show the progress.
If the stick is properly jointed - all four sides - there should be no irregularities. Cauls work well for thinner panels, not generally needed for thicker ones though you can still use them.

To avoid cracking design your project with that in mind. Always allow for wood movement.
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post #7 of 14 Old 01-10-2013, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glassnwood View Post
Thanks for the reply, You 2 Tom. What does "If the boards have a dip or a crown, then use cauls to get them aligned," mean?
This wood was cut 3 or 4 years ago and has been sitting in a barn in Al. I let it sit here in Florid for the past few months. My bud delivers a wide verity & of lengths
(some over 20 ft) & thickness from 1/4 " to 2 1/2 ". Is there any way to avoid cracking down the line ? Once I start picking out the pieces I'll start with pics.& show the progress.
A caul is just a straight edge clamped to each side of the glue-up to make it straighter. You could use straight 2x4's edgewise with plastic tape on the edge to keep the 2x4's from sticking. I normally only use cauls on thin panels. Most of the time I use a 8lb shedge hammer and a block of wood and pound the joints level.
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post #8 of 14 Old 01-10-2013, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemedic
Yes, there is a best way... Good edge jointing and glue. The rest is all pointless.
I have trouble keeping the glued edges of my panels even (on the same plane).

I've heard of some folks using biscuits at intervals just to keep workpieces aligned.

What do you think?

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did — in his
sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car.

Jack Handey
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post #9 of 14 Old 01-10-2013, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jharris2 View Post

I have trouble keeping the glued edges of my panels even (on the same plane).

I've heard of some folks using biscuits at intervals just to keep workpieces aligned.

What do you think?
are you trying to push my buttons? I can't tell.

Cauls work a LOT better than biscuits. There is no 'precision' with biscuits. I've never seen a good fitting biscuit joint. Take a few extra minutes to tighten clamps in sequence (center - out) while making sure your edge are in alignment. Or use sprung cauls after the clamps are barely snug and before tightening down.

Also, and this is a big one. Don't over tighten clamps! That causes all sorts of problems - dry joints, bowed panels and misaligned panels.
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post #10 of 14 Old 01-10-2013, 08:52 AM
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That is what the cauls are for. They will keep the boards in alignment during glue up.
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post #11 of 14 Old 01-10-2013, 12:49 PM
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So this is probably difficult to answer on a forum vs. seeing it in person, but how tight is too tight? I just completed my first glue up and the panels came out bowed and misaligned. I didn't particularly care since 1. they weren't flat going in and 2. i planed them smooth and the irregularities really won't matter for my application. I did joint them with a couple of planes, which was great fun, and really good practice on correcting my tendency to make the left side of the edge an obtuse angle (I'm left handed - I wonder if that affects which way the plane is mis-angled). I never got the edge perfectly square but that didn't matter.

I'm doing a project where a flat, square glued up panel is important, how much pressure is too much?
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post #12 of 14 Old 01-10-2013, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemedic

are you trying to push my buttons? I can't tell.
Who me? I'd never do that. O:-)

It was a serious question though.

I built some cauls and use them , jointed my workpieces, been careful about clamping pressure and assembled larger panels in smaller sections. All to varying degrees of success, none to my satisfaction

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did — in his
sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car.

Jack Handey
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post #13 of 14 Old 01-10-2013, 01:49 PM
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Double post, sorry

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did — in his
sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car.

Jack Handey
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post #14 of 14 Old 01-10-2013, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve neul

a caul is just a straight edge clamped to each side of the glue-up to make it straighter.


Jointing E.Red cedar.-1-cauls-tabletop_xl.jpg

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did — in his
sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car.

Jack Handey
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