Joint spllit - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 03-23-2020, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
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Joint spllit

I made a Hickory table about 8 months ago. It's a 5 panel table with breadboards on both ends. I put all the boards thru the joiner and everything came out good. I doweled all the boards together with 3/8" dowels, glued and clamped all joints for 24 hours, sanded and polyurethaned both sides. Bottom with 2 coats and top with 4 coats. It turned out great. I just noticed that one seam split. Not sure what caused it but it's there. I'm looking for the best way to close it back up and keep it closed. I was just thinking about cleaning out the joint, clean up any leftover scraps, pour some glue into the joint, clamp and maybe screw a piece of wood to the underside of the joint to hold it together.

Any other thoughts?
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post #2 of 15 Old 03-23-2020, 09:44 AM
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I had a joint separate like that on one of my early woodworking projects. Realized I was using too much clamp pressure and squeezing out too much glue.


If feasible I would want to resaw that joint into two sections and then rejoin. The problem with just cleaning and reglueing is that there will be glue left on the boards that will prevent the new glue from penetrating the wood.



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post #3 of 15 Old 03-23-2020, 09:59 AM
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This is the result of wood shrinkage combined with glue line failure. When pieces are brought inside, where the humidity is lower than the shop shrinkage will occur so this is my 1st suspicion. Gluing up panels is not the time to worry about glue squeeze out ;-)

But, at least it failed along the glue line, and you know it was tight at one point, so I would have high expectations you can close it.

Apply some clamp pressure and see if the gap will close. If it doesn't clean out the debris/dried glue first. If it closes, inject some epoxy glue and keep in clamp for 24-36 hours. You might even consider tinting the glue. A line of tape along the glue line will prevent glue from getting on the top..

If the gap doesn't close I'm afraid you'll have to fill it and live with it.

Robert
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post #4 of 15 Old 03-23-2020, 10:00 AM
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W.A. - would you be opposed to putting in a few Butterfly/Bowtie patches ?
you could cut some out of thin veneer (or even brown paper) and place them
randomly on the splits just to see how you (and your family) like the idea.
Just a thought.

.

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post #5 of 15 Old 03-23-2020, 10:02 AM
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I agree with GeorgeC. I have an old double pedestal oak desk that had a small gap between boards. Ran it through table saw and glued back together. It's still good after about 10 years.

Your issue might be getting the breadboard ends off.

Brian

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post #6 of 15 Old 03-23-2020, 04:09 PM
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Did you do the breadboard ends so the top could expand and contract through them?

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post #7 of 15 Old 03-23-2020, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Some good thoughts. I don't want to remove the breadboards that will be a lot of work. I did make sure the breadboards were done the correct way to ensure movement. I'll try to clamp it to see if it closes up and see what happens then. I'll let you know what happen after that. I am working on a couple of projects right now so it will be a little before I get back to the forum.
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post #8 of 15 Old 03-23-2020, 05:43 PM
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How did you attach the top to the base? That is another possible reason for splitting.
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post #9 of 15 Old 03-27-2020, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Q View Post
How did you attach the top to the base? That is another possible reason for splitting.
My thoughts as well. Is there something underneath that is attached all the way across that won't allow wood movement? Show us what's under the split area please.

Or, did you sit a laptop there and it got hot? Heat induced drying and shrinking in the center of the top will do that.
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post #10 of 15 Old 03-28-2020, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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The base of the table runs perpendicular to the split. Screws hold the top to the base about 14" from the end of the table. It just seems odd that it happened about 8 months after it was finished. No laptop.
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post #11 of 15 Old 03-28-2020, 08:48 AM
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Shrinkage ,bad joint glue failure, etc. It could be anything.


Squeezed too much glue out. How many times has that been discussed. ..maybe too little was used.

I have a desk down stairs where the board separated all the way down .. reason? Bread board ends.

I have had really good results with bread board ends , just got caught on this project...

Last edited by Rebelwork; 03-28-2020 at 08:54 AM.
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post #12 of 15 Old 03-28-2020, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooden Art View Post
The base of the table runs perpendicular to the split. Screws hold the top to the base about 14" from the end of the table. It just seems odd that it happened about 8 months after it was finished. No laptop.

It isn’t odd that it split during the winter, consider you built it during the summer months when the humidity was higher. That the way it works. Summer, the wood swells, winter, it dries out. That is why you need to attach the top in a way that allows the wood to move. Screwing the top to the base will not allow that to happen.

The split will close this summer if you leave it alone, although that doesn’t help to glue it back together. Unscrew the top from the base and attach it the right way. It seems strange that you would research breadboard ends and attach them in a manner that would allow for seasonal changes, but not attach the top to the base to allow for the same.
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post #13 of 15 Old 05-11-2020, 07:30 AM
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Personally. I would leave it. It's part of the patina. It' s part of the character. It reminds me of I don't have full control in this life! GRIN! Wood movement can be unpredictable.

It still looks great!
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post #14 of 15 Old 05-11-2020, 07:41 AM
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It's possible that if the boards were forced closed because of the dowels, and the dowels were not PERFECTLY aligned, the pressure from this misalignment might have been from the dowels fighting back.
With modern adhesives, there is absolutely no need for dowels or biscuits. As for alignment, I can do a much quicker and better job without the aid of them.

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post #15 of 15 Old 05-11-2020, 07:55 AM
where's my table saw?
 
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Things to try ....

See if the gap will close up when you apply moderate clamping pressure. Look underneath to see if the gap goes from top to bottom.
Shine a bright light from underneath and look down from the top to see how open it is and where it is open. Clamp it shut if possible and see how much light you can see from the top. All this is in preparation for this:
https://www.acehardware.com/departme...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
I think the gel would be best^

OR this:
https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/p...fessional.html


Loosen all the screws underneath before clamping to allow free movement of the pieces. If you used slotted holes on the apron check to see if they have enough travel. If you used "Z" clips, just loosen the screws. Then mask off the gap with painter's tape and flow the S/G into the gap, but have your clamps already in place, but not tightened, because you will need to work quickly. You could work from one end, flowing the S/G in and tightening as you go. Once the

gap is closed, and the glue has had time to cure, remove the clamps slowly and see if the "repair" was successful.... hopefully it was.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 05-11-2020 at 08:32 AM.
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