Joining without fasteners. - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 56 Old 07-22-2012, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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Yes. But a biscuit jointer (plate jointer) is anywhere between $60 and $600 depending on what brand you get (Ryobi - Lamelo). You have a tablesaw and this option is free for you right now and the jointery has been used for centuries. If I had to choose between the Pocket Hole jig and the biscuit jointer I'd take the PH jig in a heartbeat. So much more useful.

Of course, I have both.

and then some
Haha, i would do the PH joint but I'm worried about the screws protruding when i do my roundover.
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post #22 of 56 Old 07-22-2012, 11:34 AM
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I told you to do a test. If you are planning on doing the wood thing for a bit then the PH is a valuable tool to have. I use mine nearly everyday. I am a professional though, I do this for my living. I have the smaller handheld jig that I got first and used for a few years before I plunked down $800 on the Kreg Foreman to make my life easier.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
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post #23 of 56 Old 07-22-2012, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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I told you to do a test. If you are planning on doing the wood thing for a bit then the PH is a valuable tool to have. I use mine nearly everyday. I am a professional though, I do this for my living. I have the smaller handheld jig that I got first and used for a few years before I plunked down $800 on the Kreg Foreman to make my life easier.
I may just buy it, i was looking at my test (i made a test box out of 3/4 ply) its already together and i did a 3/8" round over. It looks like it may not even be an issue! Sorry about so many questions! I love to learn and i want this to be flawless as possible, I've been bugging the fellow carpenters at work non stop haha! Thanks.
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post #24 of 56 Old 07-22-2012, 11:41 AM
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Questions are how you learn. Just remember to take the screw out of the joint before you do your test route. If it does poke through then it will put a nice nick in your router bit, then you'll have to buy one of those too.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
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post #25 of 56 Old 07-22-2012, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Questions are how you learn. Just remember to take the screw out of the joint before you do your test route. If it does poke through then it will put a nice nick in your router bit, then you'll have to buy one of those too.
Yes learn i must! I've been trying hard to get into the carpentry shop for a while now. Not quite carpentry like you all are used to its scenic carpentry.
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post #26 of 56 Old 07-22-2012, 12:02 PM
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The pictures help. This is what I call a butt joint. Sides will butt end-grain to the top and bottom face grain.

I think the tongue and groove is easy enough to do on the table saw.

This is not to scale.

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Cut e.g., 3/8in wide x 3/8in deep on each piece.

If you want to buy a jig, I would say a box joint jig would work for you. Poor mans dovetail.
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post #27 of 56 Old 07-22-2012, 12:10 PM
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Yep, like I described, a tongue and groove. I was too lazy to make pics this morning.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
Finishing is 3 parts chemistry and 1 part VooDoo http://lrgwood.com
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post #28 of 56 Old 07-22-2012, 02:49 PM
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Why get it complicated? Why be so concerned about and end joint. I am sitting here looking at 7 such joints in two bookcases. These joints are more then adequately strong.

That type of joint is used thousands of times every day across this world for exactly that type of build.

There is the age old saying "keep it simple stupid."

More commonly called the KISS principle.

George
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post #29 of 56 Old 07-22-2012, 03:30 PM
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you can cut a groove for a spline with a groove cutter on a router.
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post #30 of 56 Old 07-22-2012, 04:58 PM
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A rabbet with glue and then clamped works pretty darn good...just like drawer assembly. Can be done with a router, or a table saw.





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post #31 of 56 Old 07-23-2012, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Forget it! I finally found a solution. I bought a dovetail jig and I'm going to do that. I've been practicing on scrap a lot and have finally figured out how to use it. I practiced on AC/maple ply and apparently it doesnt work too well but i did use it on some walnut and that came out very well..

One question though. Any tips on doing dovetails in maple such as precautions or ways to prevent tear out?
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post #32 of 56 Old 07-23-2012, 06:07 PM
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Forget it! I finally found a solution. I bought a dovetail jig and I'm going to do that. I've been practicing on scrap a lot and have finally figured out how to use it. I practiced on AC/maple ply and apparently it doesnt work too well but i did use it on some walnut and that came out very well..

One question though. Any tips on doing dovetails in maple such as precautions or ways to prevent tear out?

Dovetails can be a PIA with plywood. Sounds like you have pretty good plywood though. Backer board helps a lot. Usually need and extra pair of arms to get two boards loaded in the jig though. Another thing I will do is just a couple of very shallow passes through the comb and then climb cut each pin/tail.

John

If I strive for perfection, I can generally achieve good'nuff, If I strive for good'nuff, I generally achieve firewood
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post #33 of 56 Old 07-23-2012, 06:42 PM
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Baltic Birch or Euro Maple ply or Apple ply will do well with dovetails. There is usually a bit of breakage between the plys, but that all gets hidden anyway and it rarely affects the strength of the joint.

This is Euro Maple

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
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post #34 of 56 Old 07-23-2012, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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UPDATE: Tried some more test pieces (messed up, cut tails on wrong piece, whatever its a test right?)

Anyways, tried another piece of maple on the back as a backer and VOILA! Worked a charm!

No visual damage to the visible side at all! Woohoo..

Now id like a backer on the front and back when i do the real deal. Is there a material that works best for this?

I was thinking of maybe 1/4" MDF.
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post #35 of 56 Old 07-23-2012, 07:25 PM
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Don't use MDF. It will dull the bit quickly. Use solid.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
Finishing is 3 parts chemistry and 1 part VooDoo http://lrgwood.com
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post #36 of 56 Old 07-23-2012, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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Don't use MDF. It will dull the bit quickly. Use solid.
Really? Thats good to know! Anything solid okay, does the thickness matter?
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post #37 of 56 Old 07-23-2012, 08:15 PM
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Just needs to cover the area you are using it to prevent breakout. Usually the thickness of the drawer side/front

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
Finishing is 3 parts chemistry and 1 part VooDoo http://lrgwood.com
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post #38 of 56 Old 07-23-2012, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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Just needs to cover the area you are using it to prevent breakout. Usually the thickness of the drawer side/front
Okay thank you. Tomorrow I'm going to grab some scrap maple slabs and try it out.

Now when it comes to smoothing over the joints, I'm assuming a sander is definitely a no-no, and a hand planer is the way to go?

If so what type?
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post #39 of 56 Old 07-23-2012, 08:34 PM
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If you are doing dovetails you would be best to sand or plane all your board first (inside of drawer). If you take off to much stock then the dovetails will no longer fit nice.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
Finishing is 3 parts chemistry and 1 part VooDoo http://lrgwood.com
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post #40 of 56 Old 07-23-2012, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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Okay gotcha, but what I'm saying is once the box is all assembled and there may be some variance in the joints to get it level.
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