Joining some black walnut - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 11-10-2013, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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Joining some black walnut

Need to make a 16"x18" square out of 3/4" black walnut. I'm then going to cut the shape of an animal out of it and don't want to be able to see the seem. Should I just glue two 16"x9" together? I don't have a biscuit joiner anymore and I need a strong joint as this will be one of two sides to a step stool. Thanks, Glen
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post #2 of 26 Old 11-10-2013, 11:24 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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Match the grain

To hide the glue line match the grain as best as possible. The grain should look like a complete picture, rather than 2 separate pieces.
Book matching, resawing from one thicker piece would be best, but maybe not possible.
http://www.oakwoodveneer.com/tips/match.html

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #3 of 26 Old 11-11-2013, 11:19 PM
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I do jointing with cherry, red oak, and pine all the time. Getting the seam to be... uh seamless is easily done as long as the joining surface is straight and flat, which I easily do with a hand plane. Not sure if you`ve done it before but check to be sure the edge is perpendicular, glue it, and clamp overnight. Clean the face of the seam with your plane and you wont be able to feel it, seeing it will be dependant on the grane. As far as strength the glue is stronger than the wood so biscuits wouldn`t be needed so long as its paralelle with the grain.
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post #4 of 26 Old 11-12-2013, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, I'll give it a try
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post #5 of 26 Old 11-16-2013, 08:53 AM
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I make sure my edges are straight, match grain and color best I can, then use cauls. The cauls made a big difference in getting a tight seamless fit. Then I just sand the joint with a high grit. Ruined a lot of wood finally getting this down.

I read somewhere that reversing the end grain is also a good idea, for warping purposes...not sure if it matters doing two boards. Maybe someone has better insight into this.
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post #6 of 26 Old 11-16-2013, 04:26 PM
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If you joint the edges true and smooth so the boards fit together with no gaps and you use a good wood glue Like Titebond and you clamp the wood properly, the joint should be stronger than the actual wood grain around it.
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post #7 of 26 Old 11-16-2013, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Yep, used Tightbond and clamped. You can't see the seem at all. Thanks guys
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post #8 of 26 Old 11-16-2013, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Just another question. I used 8 (4 on each side) kreg screws and Tightbond glue for the steps. Do you think that is enough? This is for a child under 50lbs. Here are some pics of it unfinished.
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post #9 of 26 Old 11-17-2013, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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We'll here it is finished. Any thoughts on if the glue and screws will be enough to support or should I build a stringer into it?
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Last edited by Dopalgangr; 11-17-2013 at 08:07 PM.
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post #10 of 26 Old 11-17-2013, 08:40 PM
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8 screws per step should provide more than enough shear strength for a 50# load. The only concern that I have is lateral loading and the potential of the thing failing under side loading. I would put a couple of gussets under each step to give more lateral stability.

It looks really good! Walnut has always been my favorite wood
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post #11 of 26 Old 11-17-2013, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrangler
8 screws per step should provide more than enough shear strength for a 50# load. The only concern that I have is lateral loading and the potential of the thing failing under side loading. I would put a couple of gussets under each step to give more lateral stability. It looks really good! Walnut has always been my favorite wood
thanks for the info, so that I understand when you say lateral support do you mean a block of wood attached under where the step connects going the width of the step? Or do you mean a support bar going across the middle of the step length wise?

Last edited by Dopalgangr; 11-17-2013 at 09:40 PM.
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post #12 of 26 Old 11-17-2013, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopalgangr View Post
thanks for the info, so that I understand when you say lateral support do you mean a block of wood attached under where the step connects going the width do the step? Or do you mean a support bar going across the middle of the step length wise?
I would take a few 3 x 3 x 3/4 blocks, cut them on the diagonal to make right angle triangles. Glue and screw them to the bottom of the steps and sides. Gussets like these will provide lateral strength.
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post #13 of 26 Old 11-17-2013, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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I gotcha now, thanks!!
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post #14 of 26 Old 11-17-2013, 11:23 PM
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Cute stool. Is it just the picture or does the top step extend out past the bunny toe? Might tip forward.

Nails only hold themselves.


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post #15 of 26 Old 11-17-2013, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
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It does extend just under 1/2" past. I was wondering that too and will have to test it out once the finish is done. Hopefully it doesn't, I wouldn't want to tear the top step out and move it rearward at this point.
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post #16 of 26 Old 11-18-2013, 10:33 AM
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The red flag I see is in the front feet. Once a person stands on the top step, all the weight gets transferred to those tiny front feet. Where those front legs attach to the main body there is only about 2" of cross grain wood. Any amount of wiggle from the person could cause one of those legs to crack across the grain and the stool would go right over. I would have cut out the design with the wood grain in the vertical position. That would have also eliminated any chance of breaking off the ears, which also have a small connecting area, which is cross grain.

As for the steps, I would cut cleats to be glued and screwed under each step and to the sides. You can cut them about 1" inch shorter so they don't show as much. You could cut or round over the corner of the cleats that hangs in the open just to finish it off better.
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post #17 of 26 Old 11-18-2013, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MNsawyergp View Post
The red flag I see is in the front feet. Once a person stands on the top step, all the weight gets transferred to those tiny front feet. Where those front legs attach to the main body there is only about 2" of cross grain wood. Any amount of wiggle from the person could cause one of those legs to crack across the grain and the stool would go right over. I would have cut out the design with the wood grain in the vertical position. That would have also eliminated any chance of breaking off the ears, which also have a small connecting area, which is cross grain.

As for the steps, I would cut cleats to be glued and screwed under each step and to the sides. You can cut them about 1" inch shorter so they don't show as much. You could cut or round over the corner of the cleats that hangs in the open just to finish it off better.
Oh well, I knew I should have asked for advice BEFORE I made it. I never really thought about the grain issue, to be honest I had a vision in my head and went with it. Should have spent more time on the functionality of it and made sure I gave that adequate thought. Hopefully those little feet will hold, since this is a childs stool im thinking that 50lbs would be the max weight that it will ever have to hold. Thanks for all the suggestions.
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post #18 of 26 Old 11-18-2013, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopalgangr

Oh well, I knew I should have asked for advice BEFORE I made it. I never really thought about the grain issue, to be honest I had a vision in my head and went with it. Should have spent more time on the functionality of it and made sure I gave that adequate thought. Hopefully those little feet will hold, since this is a childs stool im thinking that 50lbs would be the max weight that it will ever have to hold. Thanks for all the suggestions.
Well what the deuce! It's for a child for crying out loud. It's great the way it is. Can it be prefect. Well not if we here have anything to say about it. :) Do what you must and throw some polycrapoline on it and everyone will get off your back.

It's really nice.

Al

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post #19 of 26 Old 11-18-2013, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al B Thayer View Post
Well what the deuce! It's for a child for crying out loud. It's great the way it is. Can it be prefect. Well not if we here have anything to say about it. :) Do what you must and throw some polycrapoline on it and everyone will get off your back. It's really nice. Al Nails only hold themselves.
Agreed, if you're at all worried about cross grain breakage, drill across the grain of the front legs and glue a dowel in each hole. Then enjoy watching the child climbing on it!!
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post #20 of 26 Old 11-18-2013, 10:48 PM
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I think it's awesome :)

My wife and I made a small footstool for our daughter that she barely ever used and before we knew it, she outgrew it along with a lot of clothes and shoes.

It may not get used much but it's still awesome.

just for the heck of it, could you dowel or just glue up a horizontal piece from foot to foot on the inside and then maybe a support piece on each side going up to the step? Wouldn't be visually appealing but maybe it would add some support.

Last edited by Noek; 11-18-2013 at 10:51 PM.
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