Joining 4 2x4s at one point - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 34 Old 06-05-2013, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FrankC View Post
Won't the rafters have to run from corner to corner, if so your calculations will have to be based on the length of the diagonal not one of the sides.


Alright, you guys got to try the sh!t I was smoking last night when I was drawing this out... heh.
So I built the roof structure. Dragged it and slapped it onto my 8' cube. Started fastening it to the sides. And boom! It hit me! FrankC was right to be confused with my drawing because I DEFINITELY SHOULD OF HAVE MOUNTED RAFTERS DIAGONALLY.

It looks so freaking funny you guys will have enough comedy material on me for ages.

Back to the drawing board I go.


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post #22 of 34 Old 06-05-2013, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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The only 2 things I would change about that is 1. you want some sort of overhang for a gazebo right? otherwise it's just a shed with no sides

Secondly, It looks like he want's the rafters to intersect with the middle of the 2x4's, not the corners.

Am I misunderstanding what you were trying to say?

afx, I can't have the overhang because the canvas structure I'm draping over the frame does not have the room for one. You have my permission to call it a shed!
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post #23 of 34 Old 06-05-2013, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Yikes...



btw afx, you called it. I was pretty much half way done!
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post #24 of 34 Old 06-05-2013, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
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OK, so generally I do not post photos of my massive failures, but as you guys have been such good sports I will give you guys a rolling laugh.



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post #25 of 34 Old 06-05-2013, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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You guys will notice the strange diagonal 2x4's at the top of my cube. Those came handy when the bottoms of my "triangles" weren't quite on top of the cube.


A botched job to boot. I'll give it another try over the weekend -- this time with a much, much, better plan, I hope.
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post #26 of 34 Old 06-05-2013, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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The hip rafters, to the corners, will be longer than the jacks to the center. 7.13 ft by my calculations. The base length to the corner is 5.65 ft. the height is 3 ft the angle at the top is 36.8 degrees and at the bottom it's 53.1 degrees.

After closely studying your drawing, I decided that it is probably my best bet at the moment.

Originally I was hoping not to use so much wood mainly to keep the inside as open as possible. The "roof" structure that I've built, although probably quite laughable, is pretty darn solid. I really don't care it it survives a hurricane. We don't have many hurricanes here and so I was hoping to give a good-enough method a try (I'm usually a perfectionist). If a hurricane comes and destroys my roof -- I'll have a bonfire and rebuild it a bit better a week later.
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post #27 of 34 Old 06-05-2013, 08:49 PM
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ok, dude you R so lost....

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OK, so generally I do not post photos of my massive failures, but as you guys have been such good sports I will give you guys a rolling laugh.


Hopefully there is some more lumber in that black box at the lower left side of the photo montage....

You can't use a 2 x 4 on the flat without any support under it.
You have no diagonal braces to prevent racking.
I would remove the chair from underneath and relocate it about 10 ft away...
You need to put a plumb level on all 4 verticals then brace them when you get it plumb. Diagonal braces in the upper corners at a minimum. This thing will fold like a damp cardboard box that been out in the rain.

Where r you located. We'll be right over.......

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 06-05-2013 at 08:53 PM.
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post #28 of 34 Old 06-05-2013, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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Hopefully there is some more lumber in that black box at the lower left side of the photo montage....

You can't use a 2 x 4 on the flat without any support under it.
You have no diagonal braces to prevent racking.
I would remove the chair from underneath and relocate it about 10 ft away...
You need to put a plumb level on all 4 verticals then brace them when you get it plumb. Diagonal braces in the upper corners at a minimum. This thing will fold like a damp cardboard box that been out in the rain.

Where r you located. We'll be right over.......

I'm in Theiveland, just down the way from you!


I know I need braces! Don't rub it in .



I have to make sure the structure is movable by two people because it is getting relocated. On the other hand I had five people swinging from all sides of the cube couple of days ago to "test" for rigidity. That's what? ~800lb of a dynamic load? It held! That cube is pretty darn solid, but you are right, I will brace it after I move it to it's permanent location.



Sir, I shall do better for my next try!
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post #29 of 34 Old 06-05-2013, 11:56 PM
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Woofabear,

I mean it isn't too bad....But.....You just need to get it in place and double up on everything. I'm sorry but I'm calling shenanigans on your friends swinging on the sides because a 2x4 isn't going to hold that much weight lying down.

I'm having trouble trying to think up solutions because of the canvas you want to lay over the top of it. I kind of think you're wasting $50 in wood trying to save $50 in wood.

My best suggestion would be to double up on everything with some wood glue and nails and put some corner supports everywhere to help support the roof. It wont take a hurricane to get that thing airborne especially when you're about to attach a sail to it.

These are the projects we all learn from. I cant tell you how many projects I've thought I planned for in every way but in the end was disappointed and embarrassed to use it.
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post #30 of 34 Old 06-06-2013, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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Woofabear,

I mean it isn't too bad....But.....You just need to get it in place and double up on everything. I'm sorry but I'm calling shenanigans on your friends swinging on the sides because a 2x4 isn't going to hold that much weight lying down.

afx for doubting me! Now I have to get everyone back together and back on it for a photo op! Btw, it's hard to notice from the photos, but there are two 2x4s making up each corner post of the cube.



Not sure that you mean about wasting $50 in wood trying to save $50 in wood -- other to call my build pointless. I guess it is pointless really...
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post #31 of 34 Old 06-07-2013, 10:57 AM
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afx for doubting me! Now I have to get everyone back together and back on it for a photo op! Btw, it's hard to notice from the photos, but there are two 2x4s making up each corner post of the cube.



Not sure that you mean about wasting $50 in wood trying to save $50 in wood -- other to call my build pointless. I guess it is pointless really...
Hey hey now, I wasn't calling your build pointless.

I'll give you an example of what I meant. When I first started woodworking, I made a coffee table, the top was made out of pine boards jointed and glued together. When I finished the top I noticed I only had enough wood to make a top that was 30 inches wide instead of 32, I hadn't taken into account how much material jointing would remove. Instead of going to buy another plank of wood I just shrunk everything else down to 30 inches. As it turned out, I wasn't that good at shrinking stuff because everything was off and the table looked like crap and I scrapped it. In the end, to save $5 on a plank of wood, I ended up wasting $50 in wood making a table that I ended up scrapping.

On the 2x4 corners comment, it looks like you butt jointed them together which isn't going to lend any strength at all. You need to glue them face to face and double the thickness of the 2x4.
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post #32 of 34 Old 07-06-2013, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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I kind of lost interest in the build for a while...

I did not like the fact that I had to put a heavy roof on the 'zebo. This will make it a chore to move around. Who moves their gazebos around? I do! So there. Like it or not, I have to make the 'zebo light and relatively safe. How to do that? Well, I'll give you guys a clue: what is a 5gal bucket filled with concrete to a roof of a gazebo?

:)

Pictures are on the way!











Quote:
Originally Posted by afx View Post
Hey hey now, I wasn't calling your build pointless.

I'll give you an example of what I meant. When I first started woodworking, I made a coffee table, the top was made out of pine boards jointed and glued together. When I finished the top I noticed I only had enough wood to make a top that was 30 inches wide instead of 32, I hadn't taken into account how much material jointing would remove. Instead of going to buy another plank of wood I just shrunk everything else down to 30 inches. As it turned out, I wasn't that good at shrinking stuff because everything was off and the table looked like crap and I scrapped it. In the end, to save $5 on a plank of wood, I ended up wasting $50 in wood making a table that I ended up scrapping.

On the 2x4 corners comment, it looks like you butt jointed them together which isn't going to lend any strength at all. You need to glue them face to face and double the thickness of the 2x4.
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post #33 of 34 Old 07-06-2013, 12:16 PM
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I have to make a few comments on your structure.

1 - 2x4's attached at a 90 degree angle actually make a better structural corner post than gluing them up into almost a 4x4.

2 - The key to prevent racking is triangles. More importantly, it is triangles in the fasteners. The bigger the triangle, the stronger the protection against racking. If the 2x4's are attached using a triangle pattern with the fasteners, it will tend to resist racking. But, the stress on the fasteners may be pretty high and over time they could loosen. The good news is that by joining the corner posts at a 90 degree angle, you made some bigger triangles. Based on what you are after, if it doesn't rack now, I would leave it alone. If it starts to rack later, I would go back and add some short 1x4 braces to reinforce the structure. They should be pretty light so, if you wanted to, you could do it now. The key on the 1x4s is to use lots of screws so that there isn't opportunity to loosen up over time.

3 - As far as the roof structure goes, I think you did a good job, you just need to go from the corners instead of the sides. Again, on the bracing, you should be able to use 1x4s instead of 2x4s, but use lots of screws.

That's my 2 cents.
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post #34 of 34 Old 10-01-2013, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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I finally had time to finish this project! I used woodnthings' measurements and my style of brace construction at the top. It's basically just like my old one. I corrected the mistake by making the roof from the corner posts. I am going to install a hammock and see if it can hold couple of people. I'll shoot some photos if everything will work out well.
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