How do I make this table leg to top joint? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 08-27-2007, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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How do I make this table leg to top joint?

I do alot of repair/refinishing. I got this practically destroyed table in the shop the other day. A lady had dragged it out of a barn, because it had cool feet. I agree the feet are really cool, I attached a shot of them. Anyway every joint in the top was split at least some, one top board she handed to me separate , it had fell off. The stretcher/shelf was also split in half. When I do this kind of work I completely disassemble the piece and glue everything back together. Since this one was practically broke down to a sum of its parts, should be easy .

Now to my question. The leg were obviously wobbly. I took the stretcher/shelf off and tried to remove the legs...no luck. They were loose as heck, but would not come out of the socket. I saw no fastener, and any glue was long gone. I have never seen this kind of joint but would like to use it in my work. The top was 3/4" and the socket was 3/8" (?), another reason I did not get too rough trying to get the legs out of the holes. I did drive a narrow chisel under one leg and gave it a few taps, but saw myself cracking the top before I ever popped the leg out. My only fix was tip the table upside down and pour glue into the channel and wiggle the leg to disburse it in the socket. That worked, the legs are solid now. I am just curious about the joint itself. Maybe it is a basic one you all know, but I do not.

I attached a picture of the table "back in one piece" (the feet are just stuck on, I have yet to finish it). It is all glued back together. I will put a finish on it in a day or two and it will look nice, it is not finished in the pictures, just fixed.
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Last edited by Daren; 08-27-2007 at 11:43 AM.
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post #2 of 15 Old 08-27-2007, 12:41 PM
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Is it possible that the legs were threaded on with some small version of a hanger bolt or a dowelfast?
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post #3 of 15 Old 08-27-2007, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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I can't see there being enough meat left on the top (it was only 3/4" to start with) after the receiving hole for the leg was drilled for something like that. You peeked my curiosity though, so I touched a strong magnet to the top, nothing. That does not mean whatever you are speaking of is not made of something nonferrous like brass though.
I wonder what the purpose of the tapered slot going into the socket is ?
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post #4 of 15 Old 08-27-2007, 01:08 PM
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That method of joinery looks like a form of a locked tenon. Since a leg with just a tenoned end gets glued in a mortise (hole), the joint can be aided by a slot, with a tapered insert, that gets tighter the further it gets inserted. The end of which gets either inserted into a mortise in the leg, or just abutts the leg creating a glue joint and directional restriction. In other words it can work like a key. Similar joints can be done like a wedge, which will create a pressure in one or more directions. From some of the crazy stuff I've tried, that is my guess.
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post #5 of 15 Old 08-27-2007, 08:43 PM
 
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I was thinking the same as cabinetman. A key. But looking at the leg again the grain is matched to well for there to be a key. Unless the key is inserted first and the leg driven into the joint with the key doing the tightening as it is the leg is put in place.
Odd joint I must say. Never saw one like that.
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post #6 of 15 Old 08-28-2007, 06:34 AM
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I have encountered wedged joints

in some older chairs. The end of the tennon was cut and a wedge was inserted into the cut but left proud of the end. When the tennon was driven into the mortise, the wedge was simultaneously driven into the tennon causing it to spread and clamp the sides of the mortise (all my assumption based on the evidence at hand). When they were brought to me the legs had gotten loose (who knows how old they were). When I was able to worry the first set of legs apart I found this joint and absolutely no sign of any glue. I reassembled the chair I had dismantled and then hit all the joints with a liberal dose of rockler's "wonder-lock-em". My absolute favorite for repairing loose mortise and tennon joints.
As to that keyway, aren't you just dying to tear this thing apart and seeing for yourself what it actually is? I have no clue.

Ed
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post #7 of 15 Old 08-28-2007, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by edp View Post
. . . . . When I was able to worry the first set of legs apart . . . . .
I like that description.
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post #8 of 15 Old 08-29-2007, 10:10 PM
 
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Duct tape and drywall screws.......sorry.....I build guitars what else did you expect???
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post #9 of 15 Old 08-30-2007, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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Duct tape and drywall screws..
That is the way I am doing it now...I was looking for something "fancier" to add to my joinery arsenal .
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post #10 of 15 Old 08-30-2007, 10:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edp View Post
in some older chairs. The end of the tennon was cut and a wedge was inserted into the cut but left proud of the end. When the tennon was driven into the mortise, the wedge was simultaneously driven into the tennon causing it to spread and clamp the sides of the mortise (all my assumption based on the evidence at hand). When they were brought to me the legs had gotten loose (who knows how old they were). When I was able to worry the first set of legs apart I found this joint and absolutely no sign of any glue. I reassembled the chair I had dismantled and then hit all the joints with a liberal dose of rockler's "wonder-lock-em". My absolute favorite for repairing loose mortise and tennon joints.
As to that keyway, aren't you just dying to tear this thing apart and seeing for yourself what it actually is? I have no clue.

Ed
That's what I was thinking...a fox joint.
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post #11 of 15 Old 08-30-2007, 11:02 AM
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Whatever the joint is, that is going to be a pretty little table once it is finished, and well worth the effort.

Gerry
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post #12 of 15 Old 09-05-2007, 11:09 PM
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table leg

I think the key spreads the tendon inside the round mortice, and the key give more glue surface, improving a poor joint. just a guess
cool stuff!!!!
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post #13 of 15 Old 09-10-2007, 09:16 PM
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about table leg

daren i agree with the other guys it probley has a wedge in it . I have only seem somthing like this once before and it had a wedge inside . The reason they put a wedge is to spread the joint to make it tight but i do not agree with this type of joint unless it is glued. my self i would not use that type of joint. I think over time it will just come lose with out glue applyed. The other reason they probley used it was so they did not have to put glue sometimes but it will come lose after a good number of years like i stayed. The only other thing it could be is like you said maybe a brass screw of some sort exspecly if you put a magnet to it and nothing happen. My adivce carefuly pull it a part if possible to see what is holding it in place i would like to know. Let me know what happens and i hope i was of help.
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post #14 of 15 Old 09-10-2007, 09:25 PM
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about joint on table leg

daren after looking at the table leg a little close i think the wedge is put in side was way i do know but look a the grove next to the leg . Maybe you can clean some of the glue i see gloped in that area and see if there is a pieace of wood in there if so maybe you can pull it out and then remove the leg with mineal damage. This is just a guess. let me know what happens.
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post #15 of 15 Old 09-10-2007, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by woodboxs View Post
let me know what happens.
What happened was I repaired/refinished the table, got paid well for it and have 2 more pieces (bigger, that was a test I guess) from her and 3 from her family. The joint remains a mystery. I was very curious, but the show must go on.
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