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post #1 of 19 Old 06-15-2009, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Help with joiner

Hello,

Im new here and Im fairly new to using a joiner. Most of you probably know where Im going.
I need help with using a joiner properly. I continue to joint one edge so my next step is the table saw and the edge Im joining is get more and more of a bow.
At first, I place most of my pressure above the blade until I get enaough surface sitting on the outfeed table. Then all pressure is on the outfeed table. It continues to generate a bow.
Could the table be set up wrong?
What am I doing wrong?
Glenn
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post #2 of 19 Old 06-15-2009, 10:15 PM
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Musta been a used joinTer with no instructions HEY?

The basics are Flatten one side first, that's not what you've been doing, right? Look down the board first, to see if it's concave or convex. To flatten take off the convex ends by just running them over the cutter repeatedly until they start to disappear. You must flip the board end for end to accomplish this. When it starts to look relatively flat, now you are ready to start pressing down on the outfeed table with pressure while you are pushing it over the cutterhead. Once one side is flat you should joinT one edge. You may have to use the same "little at a time" process to remove bow or cup depending. Now you can SAFELY use the tablesaw to rip the opposite edge parallel to the jointed edge. The board must be flat on one one side before using the tablesaw or you will get a KICKBACK when it rocks and binds on the blade. Use your splitter on the tablesaw to keep the wood from pinching back on itself and the back of the blade, another source of KICKBACK. That should get you started. bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #3 of 19 Old 06-15-2009, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Bill,
As I said, the one side was convex. I put pressure on the outfeed table from the start. It seems as though eveytime i made a pass the more of a bow I generate.
I am taking about 1/16 off at a time. I was not flipping board end to end and I started out with pressure.
I basically have to start from scratch now as the board has a big belly in it.
Glenn
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post #4 of 19 Old 06-16-2009, 04:44 AM
where's my table saw?
 
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Think about it this way,

Think of the jointer as just a big hand plane, and don't expect it to solve a problem in one pass. Think about where you would have to remove wood to get the board flat, if you were planing it by hand. If it's concave, with a hollow in the middle, then it would be on the ends. If it's convex, like a saucer on the table, then the middle needs to go away. In your case you have to rest the far end of the board on the outfeed table and slowly lower the middle onto the cutter head as many times as is necessary to remove the belly, or convex area. Just be carfeul and watch were you hands and fingers are. You must also not try to joint a board that's too short, less than 24", starting out. Any thing shorter than that is asking for trouble.
Now, my next question is do you have a thickness planer? You really need both to mill and surface rough lumber. Lumber will bow and cup as it dries, slightly or greatly depending on the grain direction and moisture content. Once you get one side flat on the jointer, the next step is to thickness plane the top side down to the dimension you need for your project, let's say 3/4". That's why rough sawn lumber is generally 1/4" thicker before you start surfacing it, say 1", to allow for enough wood to be removed to get the surfaces flat and true. I hope this is helpful to you, bill
I just found an old post on this subject from 2-09:

Visually sight the board first. Does it have a warp, twist or cup? Or all 3? There is nothing that says you must joint the entire length of the board in one long pass. In the case of a warp, place the convex side down and joint each end in a little ways in by flipping the board end for end while staying on the same face, until the board becomes "flat" then joint all the way thru on the last several passes. This becomes the "reference" side of the board against which all the other sides will then become either, parallel or at right angles. Next step is to place the reference side against the fence and joint one edge to 90 degrees. We are now thru with the Jointer! We have one face flat and one edge at 90 degrees. I then prefer to go to the Table saw and rip the remaining edge parallel to the "good" edge. Then I can thickness plane the remaining face parallel with the "reference" side or face.

I have watched a friend take a heavy oak 12' x 14" by 3" board and freehand joint in in the manner I described above to flatten one side, by using the tables as levers, he single handedly moves the board across the jointer at only the places that he visually determined needed jointing/planing, until the entire face was flat. Watching this guy you knew that he has done this at least 10 thousand times. All his motions were smooth and fluid, just "git r done".

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 06-16-2009 at 09:45 AM.
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post #5 of 19 Old 06-16-2009, 08:37 AM
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All great advice; however, there's one more thing you might check (the same thing happened to me when I got my first joiner). Use a straight edge to ensure the height of the outfeed table is the same height as the top of the arc of the rotating knives (with the joiner unplugged, roll the cutter head to get one of the knives at it's highest point of travel). The infeed table can be adjusted to whatever amount you want to shave off but the outfeed table should always be the same height as the knives.
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post #6 of 19 Old 06-16-2009, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tips. In an effort the get this one edge flat from yesterdays episode, I used the table saw and ripped one edge flat.
Because im using this board to biscuit a few baords to make a top, I thought, now i have a fairly flat edge, I would make sure the edge is 90 to ensure a good flat & square edge to glue up, I would run it through the joiner using one of the techniques above. One pass and it started all over. Im seriously doing something wrong. Oh well, Ill get it one of these days. Practice makes perfect.
Would it be possible that the blades can cause this? I do need the get them sharpend?
Glenn
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post #7 of 19 Old 06-17-2009, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoguy View Post
All great advice; however, there's one more thing you might check (the same thing happened to me when I got my first joiner). Use a straight edge to ensure the height of the outfeed table is the same height as the top of the arc of the rotating knives (with the joiner unplugged, roll the cutter head to get one of the knives at it's highest point of travel). The infeed table can be adjusted to whatever amount you want to shave off but the outfeed table should always be the same height as the knives.

This sounds like it could very well be your issue. I had to adjust the outfeed table on my brand new jointer and now it cuts perfect.

Red

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post #8 of 19 Old 06-17-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoguy View Post
All great advice; however, there's one more thing you might check (the same thing happened to me when I got my first joiner). Use a straight edge to ensure the height of the outfeed table is the same height as the top of the arc of the rotating knives (with the joiner unplugged, roll the cutter head to get one of the knives at it's highest point of travel). The infeed table can be adjusted to whatever amount you want to shave off but the outfeed table should always be the same height as the knives.
As noted on this forum before, some jointers specifications state that the knives should be a paper thickness above the outfeed table.

You need to check your jointer's manual for exact specification.

G
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post #9 of 19 Old 06-17-2009, 09:25 AM
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Yes, use a straight edge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoguy View Post
All great advice; however, there's one more thing you might check (the same thing happened to me when I got my first joiner). Use a straight edge to ensure the height of the outfeed table is the same height as the top of the arc of the rotating knives (with the joiner unplugged, roll the cutter head to get one of the knives at it's highest point of travel). The infeed table can be adjusted to whatever amount you want to shave off but the outfeed table should always be the same height as the knives.
But check this also. Raise the infeed table to match the height of the outfeed table and check it right to left as well as down the length. You may have a issue where the outfeed table is the correct height at the cutters (flush across) but is lower at the far end. This will cause the hollow condition you are getting. You should be able to set the tables and the cutter so no daylight shows under a good straight edge. I use the machined surface of my 4 or 6 foot level. It doesn't tip over when making this alignment proceedure and is as straight as anything I have in the shop for reference.
Just a basic question: Do you have an adjustable outeed table? bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 06-17-2009 at 09:29 AM.
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post #10 of 19 Old 06-17-2009, 09:47 AM
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I agree with woodnthings. You need to check the accuracy of the machine before worrying about technique. All the proper technique won't do a bit of good if the tables aren't parallel, or if the blades aren't the same height as the outfeed table. It only takes.001" of difference in blade height to make or break it.
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post #11 of 19 Old 06-17-2009, 10:04 AM
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Safety First

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Originally Posted by gleward View Post
Thanks for the tips. In an effort the get this one edge flat from yesterdays episode, I used the table saw and ripped one edge flat. ....
Would it be possible that the blades can cause this? I do need the get them sharpend?
Glenn
Hey there Guy, before using the tablesaw for any cuts you must have one straight edge against the fence and one flat surface on the table. Any shift in the board as you are cutting may cause a KICKBACK and we don't want that! If you have to hand or power plane an edge to get it straight first, better that than a KICKBACK.
So, ALWAYS sight the board or use a reference straight edge before ripping with the fence.
There are jigs to straighten curved edges on the table saw and the simplest one is to screw an already straight board to one edge and run that against the fence, leaving a parallel and straight cut on the opposite (blade) side. Some of this basic information seems to get lost when folks are starting out so I'm just trying to keep things safe
in the forum neighborhood! bill
BTW! There is no room in the shop for DULL blades or cutters. Keep them as sharp as possible. Saves wear and tear on the motors and../...reduces the feed pressure required and lessens the chance of pushing your hands into a cutter when you hit a soft spot suddenly, Another basic rule!

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 06-17-2009 at 10:08 AM.
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post #12 of 19 Old 06-24-2009, 12:48 AM
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Thumbs up using the jointer

Glenn,
The guys have given a lot of good advice, some I can use, try this advice given to me by an old 3rd generation furniture maker 15 yrs ago that i have found works great. When feeding a board accross a jointer put as little pressure on it as possible - not on the in feed nor the out feed. That way you will only cut off the high ends, and, flip the board end for end and make the last pass with the grain. Also, the shorter the board ther better that way you will not waste any more than needful.
billrwood

Last edited by billrwood; 06-24-2009 at 12:51 AM. Reason: giv my name
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post #13 of 19 Old 06-24-2009, 01:15 AM
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Now I have a jointer question. I have never learned how to cut rabbits on a jointer. A friend of mine bought a used Ridgid 6' a couple of months ago & I tryed to cut a rabbit on it the other day but could only cut a rabbit 1/4" wide & 1/8 " deep. I could not figure out how to get the infeed table to go lower. There is a knob by the infeed adjust but could not see it had any affect on the higth adjust. I would apperciate your input. Thanks billrwood.
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post #14 of 19 Old 07-03-2009, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billrwood View Post
Glenn,
The guys have given a lot of good advice, some I can use, try this advice given to me by an old 3rd generation furniture maker 15 yrs ago that i have found works great. When feeding a board accross a jointer put as little pressure on it as possible - not on the in feed nor the out feed. That way you will only cut off the high ends, and, flip the board end for end and make the last pass with the grain. Also, the shorter the board ther better that way you will not waste any more than needful.
billrwood
This is wonderful advice. I learned it the hard way.

Also, like the others have said, make sure your jointer is tuned up square. Sounds scary but it's not that bad.

- Square the fence to the table
- Bring the infeed table level with the outfeed table. Lay a straight edge down each side - is it flat? If it isn't, you need to adjust your jointer gibs and ways.

- drop the infeed table about 1/16" or so.
- lay a straight edge on the outfeed table and blades. Slowly spin the the blades to barely touch the straight edge (both inner and outer side).
These should just barely "feel" the straight edge. A paper thickness difference on each blade here can effect your cut. If it's off, adjust the height of the blades. (If you need help here, I have a great method).

If these are all good, your jointer should be tuned square. If you want more info on any part, let me know, I'll get you the info.
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post #15 of 19 Old 07-08-2009, 09:32 PM
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New to this forum and it looks great. Not so new to making sawdust though. gleward mentioned in one of his posts that he wanted to use this board to glue up into a panel, and if so, maybe he should, if he can, crosscut it to approximately his finished length, then pass the pieces on the jointer to flatten one face. A lot less wood loss that way. One of the problems with a 6" jointer like mine is flattening a long board. (Oh for an 8" machine.) End to end warp is tough to flatten on a long board and maintain any amount of thickness, unless starting from 2' and hoping to yeild 3/4". I had a pile of wood sawn from trees I cut here at home, all cut to 1 1/4", and sometimes I am lucky to get squared, flat stock of 3/4", especially in longer lengths. Just my 2 cents CDN.

If you can't explain it to a six year old, then you really don't understand it yourself.
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post #16 of 19 Old 07-16-2009, 12:17 PM
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It's been my experience that bowed or curved surfaces out of the joiner are usually due to the infeed and outfeed tables not being coplaner (i.e. when at the same height they should be flat and plane to each other).

Spilling wine on oak does not make it purpleheart!
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post #17 of 19 Old 07-29-2009, 08:28 PM
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Thanks Johnv51, This is new to me. It is something I shall have to research, so that I can check my jointer. I should know what you are talking about, but I am never too old to learn something new. Thanks for the heads-up. Any advice to show me how to check this, or point me to another thread, would be appreciated.

If you can't explain it to a six year old, then you really don't understand it yourself.
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post #18 of 19 Old 07-30-2009, 06:28 AM
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There is an excellent acticle (with pictures) in the current issue of Woodsmith, Vol 31/ No. 183, entitled entitled "trouble shooting tips for your jointer.

George
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post #19 of 19 Old 07-30-2009, 08:10 PM
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Thanks, GeorgeC
I shall look for this issue at my newsstand.

If you can't explain it to a six year old, then you really don't understand it yourself.
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