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post #21 of 32 Old 06-09-2013, 12:49 PM
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I am happy to see examples of what a smart programmer can create with a CNC machine.

I like my hand tools, I like my power tools. If I had a CNC machine, I expect I would also like it.

I have written more than my share of code over the years. In my case the code was to manipulate data rather than the head of a CNC machine.

It is not easy getting code to work as desired. Like woodworking, can be many iterations. I used to tell the folks testing my code "I have finished writing the bugs, now it is your job to find them"

I have seen lots of wood work which was created without power tools. I can appreciate the effort and skill.

I can also appreciate the effort to get CNC code to work as desired. Different skills.

Jerry is just showing us what he can achieve with his machine. He did ask at the start if this was hand tools only, and we responded power tools are welcome.

I am happy to see more examples of peoples work, whether hand tools, power tools, or CNC. Sometimes I see something which inspires me. Sometimes I just appreciate seeing the piece.
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post #22 of 32 Old 06-09-2013, 01:00 PM
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Good points Dave. I for one am still scratching my head looking at some of the angles cut on the joints that were CNC'd. Interesting stuff.

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post #23 of 32 Old 06-10-2013, 01:07 AM
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I guess I came across kinda harsh yesterday.I kinda figured there was more to plugging in your machine and push the dovetail button.I'm sure you better have your head screwed on pretty straight to run your machine.
The truth for me is I get my ass kick every year at local woodcraft show by a guy who creates art on a Cnc machine nice guy but I hate him.Maybe next year I'll take the trophy.
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post #24 of 32 Old 06-10-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backbevel View Post
I guess I came across kinda harsh yesterday.I kinda figured there was more to plugging in your machine and push the dovetail button.I'm sure you better have your head screwed on pretty straight to run your machine.
The truth for me is I get my ass kick every year at local woodcraft show by a guy who creates art on a Cnc machine nice guy but I hate him.Maybe next year I'll take the trophy.

I've got to admit, I'm beginning to think there should be separate categories in competitions for CNC and non-CNC. Not because the CNC folks always win -- I doubt they do -- but because they're such different skill sets. One person uses code, and the other uses their hands on tools. Neither is better, but almost the only overlap in skill is the final product.
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post #25 of 32 Old 06-10-2013, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amckenzie4 View Post
I've got to admit, I'm beginning to think there should be separate categories in competitions for CNC and non-CNC. Not because the CNC folks always win -- I doubt they do -- but because they're such different skill sets. One person uses code, and the other uses their hands on tools. Neither is better, but almost the only overlap in skill is the final product.
Sounds like a good idea to me.

Since we have no input to the competitions, I am not expecting to see this anytime soon.
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post #26 of 32 Old 06-10-2013, 02:51 PM
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Nope. But if we all start mentioning it at competitions we view, the organizers might get the idea. Who knows... it could happen.
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post #27 of 32 Old 06-10-2013, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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It might indeed be helpful to keep it separate. I have never participated in such a competition but depending on the judges, they may value some over-the-top carving higher than good design and elegant execution. Admittedly a CNC machine lends itself to such over the top products and I personally find a lot of the stuff that is being made kitschy enough to cringe. But there seems to be a market for that, too.

As for a comment made earlier about not considering the character and grain of the wood, that is of course up to the person using the machine. In principle it applies to manual work as well as to CNC machining. But I agree it is easy for somebody who does not know what he is doing, to just slap a piece of lumber on a CNC table and butcher it.

I hope I am not talking the issue to death but I find this a very interesting discussion.
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post #28 of 32 Old 06-12-2013, 12:12 AM
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Jerry,

First, welcome to the our forum.

I just finished up a project where the majority components were cut CNC.

The woods used are sugar pine and mahogany. The beams, brackets and bolts were degreased and sprayed with a rusting solution of 4 parts white vinegar, 1 part hydrogen peroxide and 1/2 part salt.

CNC is a tool not unlike any of the others we use.

It takes skill to program. The machine will do exactly as its told.

Like any other method there is always a possibility of error. Therefore IMO when the project turns out well the programmer/operator/designer deserves as much a "good on ya" as those using other methods.

You do great work. I'm looking forward to seeing more post from you.
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When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did in his
sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car.

Jack Handey
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post #29 of 32 Old 06-12-2013, 12:15 AM
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Oops,

Forgot to credit Steve for the concept, design, programing and CNC operation.

http://www.google.com/search?q=steve...w&ved=0CDYQsAQ

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did in his
sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car.

Jack Handey
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post #30 of 32 Old 06-14-2013, 11:57 AM
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Hey Jerry I tried to PM you but you don't have enough posts to unlock that feature yet. I have a question for you. Shoot me an email when you have a minute, if you would. [email protected]

Thanks!
Brian
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post #31 of 32 Old 06-14-2013, 01:09 PM
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Ok let's not beat up on anyone. I think the problem of introducing CNC stuff to a forum like this is not much different the where other computer operated machines to the old craftmenship way out of a certain profession/craft or art. People take that very personal.

For example I use to do commercial art/graphic design and signs. All by hand no computer. I hand cut vinyl or hand painted letters for signs. Not bragging but I was cutting stuff most people still could not do with there computers. I made color separations for screen printing by hand and would draw the pictures used for ads in the news paper. I was very good at this and enjoyed the artistic challenge. Computers came in and mast produced everything driving down prices. No different then CNC machines or better yet hand cut dove tails went out with the dovetail jig, wood joinery went out with all the new fasteners especially pocket screws. There are probably a lot more examples but your losing the personal craftsmanship that people use as there expression in there art or craft.

I can create beautiful computer art but I don't get the same feeling of accomplishment or satisfaction as when I do it by hand. After Katrina I lost almost all my will to draw and replaced it with woodworking. I tried the pocket screws and plain butt joints but prefer any other type of more traditional joinery. I won't bash someone for doing it different but I will boast that take the time to do it in a more traditional way. I have all the respect in the world for people like Tom (firemedic) that builds stuff almost entirely by hand. I want to learn these methods and maybe try to incorporate some of those techniques in a artistic way. However I told Tom the same thing. " I'm a power tool type of guy" like Tim Taylor use to say " More Power" 3 grunts.

Now as I was saying CNC machines , plotters and now 3d printers are here to stay. I'm fine with that unless this technology is used but not disclosed. Lets say your selling one of those carvings shown above. if a customer ask if you made it, I would expect you to explain that it was carved by a computer operated machine rather then saying yes. The reason is people usually don't have a clue in these things. they assume it was carved by hand and may compare it to someone else's stuff that was either in price or quality and that is not right. Hell I plan on building a CNC machine for certain items that will be used to embellish certain things. Decorative moldings, small carvings to embellish things. Those things most people buy at the lumber store already made by a CNC machine probably in China. I would never claim otherwise and it would be cheaper then buying those items and allow for custom design.

So lets not bash on those using a CNC just like others may not want to be bashed on for using pocket screws, dovetail jigs, power tools or in my case a SawStop.

Last edited by rrbrown; 06-14-2013 at 01:24 PM.
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post #32 of 32 Old 06-14-2013, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amckenzie4 View Post
I've got to admit, I'm beginning to think there should be separate categories in competitions for CNC and non-CNC. Not because the CNC folks always win -- I doubt they do -- but because they're such different skill sets. One person uses code, and the other uses their hands on tools. Neither is better, but almost the only overlap in skill is the final product.
Very good point.

Comparing the two in the same way just don't work.
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