Glueing Dowels - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Glueing Dowels

Hey Guys,

I'm building a desk at home and have doweled the apron to the legs. My question has to do with glueing. First time around I put glue on the dowel and in the holes and had no excess glue to clean up. Second time around I put some glue on the edge of the apron and there was a lot of excess glue coming out of the edge.

Does it make any sense to glue a face and edge together or will glueing the dowel and the holes be strong enough?

Thanks so much!


http://tinypic.com/r/2wnqo1s/5
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post #2 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 11:54 AM
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There is zero strength added when glueing end grain to long grain. Zero.

There are better ways than dowels, mortise & tenon for example, but as things stand the extra glue on the end of the apron is of no benefit.
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post #3 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Do you have any advice on getting all that excess glue out of the corner? I chiseled most of it out but want to make sure that it's all gone when I apply a finish to it!
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post #4 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdeadly View Post
Do you have any advice on getting all that excess glue out of the corner? I chiseled most of it out but want to make sure that it's all gone when I apply a finish to it!
Obviously the best way is to avoid it from the get go - too late for that though, right?

You can try a hard sanding block. Also wiping with mineral spirits will reveal any remaining glue halo.

Last edited by firemedic; 07-10-2013 at 02:09 PM.
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post #5 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Apologies in advance for the stupid question, but the mineral spirits won't permanently color the wood in any way, right? I'm planning on using a Danish oil finish once it's assembled.
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post #6 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 01:39 PM
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yea, mortise & tenon would be the way to go for more strength. since you can't. you should just glue up the dowels, seems like the only option and clean up the excess carefully with a chisel.

use OSMO instead of danish oil if your worried. that's where it's at.
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post #7 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 02:08 PM
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Apologies in advance for the stupid question, but the mineral spirits won't permanently color the wood in any way, right? I'm planning on using a Danish oil finish once it's assembled.
It's not a stupid question.

No, MS will not stain or alter the lumber in any way. Takes a couple minutes to dry though.
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post #8 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 02:10 PM
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use OSMO instead
I don't even know what that is.
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post #9 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnabaas View Post
use OSMO instead of danish oil if your worried. that's where it's at.
I have not heard of OSMO either. Is this what you mean?

http://www.osmona.com/interior/wwf.shtml
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post #10 of 17 Old 07-11-2013, 01:18 AM
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I've used pocket screws and TB-III to glue end grain to edge grain on a poplar face frame. It was necessary to pull a joint apart after 45 minutes and after removing the pocket screws, the end grain was pulling the edge grain out of the poplar.

That says that the glue is stronger than the wood. I did not try after the TB-III was fully cured.

YMMV

Use the right tool for the job.

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post #11 of 17 Old 07-11-2013, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Hey Firemedic!

So I've already messed up with the dowel and put ones in that weren't long enough. I applied some light pressure to test the joint and it wiggles a bit. There's a voice inside me telling me to remove the glued dowel and put a longer dowel in but I'm worried about messing things up. Do you think that I should leave it as is and maybe re-enforce the joint with L Brackets or is it worth drilling out the existing dowels and putting a proper size dowel in there?

Here's the image of the joint.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2wnqo1s&s=5
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post #12 of 17 Old 07-11-2013, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdeadly View Post
So I've already messed up with the dowel and put ones in that weren't long enough. I applied some light pressure to test the joint and it wiggles a bit. There's a voice inside me telling me to remove the glued dowel and put a longer dowel in but I'm worried about messing things up. Do you think that I should leave it as is and maybe re-enforce the joint with L Brackets or is it worth drilling out the existing dowels and putting a proper size dowel in there?

Here's the image of the joint.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2wnqo1s&s=5
Sometimes the voices in our heads should be heeded.

If the joint is wiggling already, it is a sign it is not a good joint, and it will not get stronger over time.

Too late for a conventional mortise and tenon, but not too late for a floating tenon. Stronger than dowels.
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post #13 of 17 Old 07-11-2013, 04:10 PM
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Unfortunately there isn't much of a fix as it stands without disassembling it.

I don't think the issue is the length of the dowels and I don't believe a floating tenon is a solution for you either - after all, dowels are actually floating tenons only round in shape.

This is my guess as to what has happened. I think the joint is glue starved or the dowels are too small in diameter.

In regards to glue-
Either there was not enough glue applied or you used regular dowels and didn't add a glue groove. When using dowels you have to allow a way for the air to escape as the dowel is inserted otherwise the air pushes the glue out. The grove can be added with a chisel and its best to have two that run the length of the dowel.

In regards to the size of the dowel it should not be too snug and should slide in easily this allows room for the glue. Thats said it can't be so loose that there is a gap needing to be filled by the glue. Glue is a funny thing, it only works in very thin applications unlike epoxy that will fill and hold. Also the dowel should NOT be the full length of the combined holes - again to allow room for excess glue. 1/4" shorter is just fine.

If you can separate the joint with out damaging the pieces I would say drill them out and try again with the above advise in mind.

Good luck and keep us posted with the progress. I'm looking forward to seeing the end product!
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post #14 of 17 Old 07-12-2013, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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I figured out the problem.....

The first dowel rod I bought that was '3/8"' was actually too big and I was having a helluva time getting the pin to fit. Because it was so tight, no glue was running up the side of the pins. Next I went to Home Depot and their "3/8"" pins were way too small.

Finally went around the corner to the hardware store and they sold me ACTUAL 3/8" pins and they worked perfectly.

Thanks so much for the help....once I make some progress with this thing, I'll post some pics!
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post #15 of 17 Old 07-12-2013, 05:51 PM
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post #16 of 17 Old 07-13-2013, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Hey there!

Spoke too soon about being in the clear....I've got the sides of the apron glued up to the legs but I'm now wondering how I should go about assembling the rest of the table. The thing that's throwing me off is the drawer at the front and how I'll be able to align the front faces perfectly.

Here's a photo of the pieces laid out:



Should I try to glue and clamp the enitre thing all at once or should I start with gluing piece F to the legs and then move to A and D followed by C and E? How do I make sure that piece B (front of the drawer) lines up with A and C?

Thanks again and sorry if this is confusing!
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post #17 of 17 Old 07-14-2013, 09:02 PM
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Looks like you've got it covered on another thread... my work here is done.
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