Forgot to glue a joint - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 4Likes
  • 1 Post By nick_m
  • 1 Post By Jim Frye
  • 1 Post By GeorgeC
  • 1 Post By nick_m
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 Old 04-13-2017, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 17
View nick_m's Photo Album My Photos
Forgot to glue a joint

I'm a woodworking newbie completing my first project with mortise and tenon joinery and I somehow managed to forget to glue one of the joints. Yeah, you read that correctly.

The rails join to the legs using mitered tenons, which I planned to reinforce with dowels for strength and aesthetics. Is it worth trying to sneak glue into the joint, or can I simply rely on the dowels? The piece is an end table, so it shouldn't see much stress. The tenons are 3/8" thick, 1-5/8" wide and 1" long, and the material is white oak. I plan to use 1/4" oak dowels; should I use one or two? Thanks in advance for the help.
nick_m is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 04-13-2017, 05:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 12,472
View GeorgeC's Photo Album My Photos
Does the piece seem solid to the touch? That is, if you attempt to shake it, does it feel sound?

Is there any visual impairment to the joint. That is, does it look OK?

If you answer these yes, then leave it alone.

George
GeorgeC is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 04-13-2017, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 17
View nick_m's Photo Album My Photos
George,

The joint is loose; I can pull the rail from the leg about 1/32", but it sits flush when clamped. The other 7 joints are rock solid, so I can tell it's not a case of glue failure.
Steve D likes this.
nick_m is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 Old 04-13-2017, 06:35 PM
The Nut in the Cellar
 
Jim Frye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,033
View Jim Frye's Photo Album My Photos
If this were my situation, I'd pull the joint as far apart as possible with the opening arranged so the glue will flow downwards by gravity and bleed in some CA glue on the inside of the apron. Quickly push the joint together and clamp. When set, I'd pin the joint on the inside with 1/8" bamboo pins. Shave the pins flush with a chisel. When finished, it should hold and only you will know of your boo boo.

About ten years ago, I was restoring an old Boston rocking chair. It was about 50 years old and nearly all of the joints were loose. After replacing the broken parts, dyeing, and applying Danish Oil, I turned to the loose joinery. I positioned the chair in various positions to have the joints facing up and used a small artist's brush to bleed in 50/50 polyurethane varnish into each joint. This was the same varnish that I used for the final topcoats. After multiple "fills", I had filled each joint and wiped on the final top coats. Ten years later, after constant use, all of the joins are still tight. It took a long time, but worked.
Cowpokey likes this.

Jim Frye
I've gone out to find myself. If I return before I get back, have me wait for me.
"Sawdust is Man Glitter"

Last edited by Jim Frye; 04-13-2017 at 07:46 PM. Reason: added text
Jim Frye is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 04-13-2017, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 17
View nick_m's Photo Album My Photos
Jim,

I relieved the tenon shoulders near the cheeks to ensure a flush fit, so I don't think the CA would bind due to the void. What do you think about drilling holes at the rail-leg intersection so they lie in the planes between the tenon cheeks and the mortise walls, and then using a syringe to inject either CA or an expansive glue? I could do that while the joint was clamped. And knowing that I plan to dowel the tenons anyway, because I like the look, is the glue even necessary?

By the way, this piece is a small cabinet with rails, stiles and panel infills forming the sides, masquerading as an end table (it helps hide clutter). I understand the use of the term "apron" when describing, for example, a table. Are the terms rail and stile correct in my case, or are they reserved only for doors? I've learned a lot from the forum; if I come here for help, I want to make sure I get the terminology right.

Thanks,
Nick
nick_m is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 04-13-2017, 09:03 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,061
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
What ever you have to do to get glue in it I would get as much glue in the joint as possible.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 04-13-2017, 09:44 PM
Wood machinist
 
difalkner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NW Louisiana
Posts: 4,826
View difalkner's Photo Album My Photos
Got any photos? Years ago I had a woodworking business where we did furniture repairs by the boatload. One 'trick' we learned where all the joints were tight except one, and it didn't make sense to break the others apart to fix the one, was to put as much yellow glue as possible near the joint and blow it in with compressed air until we were satisfied the joint had as much glue as it was going to take. Then we clamped the joint and almost always got squeeze out so we knew it was now a successful glue joint. Yes, it's messy but it worked and only takes a few minutes.

This was on finished pieces so the glue just wipes right off the finish; if yours isn't finished you may want to tape or mask off the area if you plan to try this.

David

David

Curly Wood Shop on Etsy
David Falkner - Woodworking YouTube channel and Instagram
Our music at church - current videos Airline Baptist BC Facebook Live
Romans 3:23
difalkner is online now  
post #8 of 13 Old 04-14-2017, 06:53 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 12,472
View GeorgeC's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
Got any photos? Years ago I had a woodworking business where we did furniture repairs by the boatload. One 'trick' we learned where all the joints were tight except one, and it didn't make sense to break the others apart to fix the one, was to put as much yellow glue as possible near the joint and blow it in with compressed air until we were satisfied the joint had as much glue as it was going to take. Then we clamped the joint and almost always got squeeze out so we knew it was now a successful glue joint. Yes, it's messy but it worked and only takes a few minutes.

This was on finished pieces so the glue just wipes right off the finish; if yours isn't finished you may want to tape or mask off the area if you plan to try this.

David
Very inventive and interesting technique.

George
difalkner likes this.
GeorgeC is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to GeorgeC For This Useful Post:
difalkner (04-14-2017)
post #9 of 13 Old 04-14-2017, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 17
View nick_m's Photo Album My Photos
David,

Interesting idea... The attached photo shows the situation: the gap is less than 1/32 (less than the two business cards shown), and the tenon is snug in the mortise. I'm not sure I could get the glue further than the mortise shoulder using air. I think I'll try drilling access holes from beneath and blow it in that way. I'll try it on my test article this weekend.

Thanks,
Nick
Attached Images
 
difalkner likes this.
nick_m is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 04-14-2017, 05:27 PM
Wood machinist
 
difalkner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NW Louisiana
Posts: 4,826
View difalkner's Photo Album My Photos
That sounds like a good approach, Nick. Keep us posted on your progress.

David

David

Curly Wood Shop on Etsy
David Falkner - Woodworking YouTube channel and Instagram
Our music at church - current videos Airline Baptist BC Facebook Live
Romans 3:23
difalkner is online now  
post #11 of 13 Old 04-15-2017, 02:22 AM
Senior Member
 
mmwood_1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: corvallis, Oregon
Posts: 1,268
View mmwood_1's Photo Album My Photos
Nick, I use an insulin syringe and hide glue for such situations because you can heat the hide glue enough to get it to flow through the syringe. CA would flow into the joint, but it does not bond well in such situations, in my experience.

However, if you are going to pin the tenons with dowels as you plan, then actually, you can get away without glue. Make sure the pieces are tight together when you drill for the dowel, (clamp if you can) and make sure the dowel goes all the way through the tenon and at least partway into the opposing side of the mortise. I've built more than a few pieces of furniture with pinned tenons and no glue.
mmwood_1 is offline  
post #12 of 13 Old 04-15-2017, 11:57 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Troy Michigan USA
Posts: 1,254
View gmercer_48083's Photo Album My Photos
If you are going to drill for dowels any way... Use a vacuum to suck the glue in the mortice by injecting with a syringe at outer leg joint and sucking to the peg hole.
gmercer_48083 is offline  
post #13 of 13 Old 06-01-2017, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 17
View nick_m's Photo Album My Photos
Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I couldn't separate the joint far enough to blow in glue, so I drilled into the joint from below, on both sides of the tenon, then squirted in gorilla glue. It forced itself out in a couple of places, so I know it expanded into the joint. I think the solidified glue in the drill-bore is also functioning like a locking dowel. I think I'll still pin the tenons, but at this point it's more for aesthetics than strength.

I'm still waiting for the marble inserts for the tops; I'll post some images when they're complete.
nick_m is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Forgot to glue gussets to rafters - Need Advice! Evan Spealman General Woodworking Discussion 17 08-30-2016 09:43 AM
Why Both Glue And Screw? TwoRails General Woodworking Discussion 9 06-28-2016 09:22 AM
Gluing end grain to build turning block Quickstep Woodturning 1 12-19-2015 11:39 AM
For Sale: MLCS Katana reverse glue joint bit k9scooter Classifieds 0 10-06-2015 05:36 PM
For Sale: Whiteside locking drawer glue joint bit k9scooter Classifieds 0 10-06-2015 05:16 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome