fitting arch within curved legs - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 Old 11-27-2010, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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fitting arch within curved legs

I'm looking for some guidance, being new to woodworking. Please regard the attached photo. I'm looking for a method to determine where to make cuts on the outer edges of an arched piece of bent, laminated wood to best make it fit within two curved legs, so there aren't any gaps prior to gluing. After the first rough cut was made, I've done several "creep up on it" cuts, scrapings, and sandings, Now I'm at the point where if I take to much off at the wrong point I could go past the intended alignment marks. The other bugga boo is that, there is a twist in one of the legs, consequently, two dimensional aids like tracing the pieces on paper, lining them up and overlaying them on the wood, don't quite work.
I have gone as far as requesting samples of tactile pressure indicating sheets, but I haven't received them yet. Expensive stuff!
Look forward to your suggestions.
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post #2 of 14 Old 11-27-2010, 09:22 PM
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post #3 of 14 Old 11-27-2010, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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added attachments and included two photos of the same piece, with issues of a similar nature.
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post #4 of 14 Old 11-28-2010, 04:08 AM
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Do a dry fit and clamp up to get the positioning right. Do your markings for placement of a blind spline (loose tenon). Follow the line angles (like the pencil marks you have) for the direction. Where the ends of the curved lam meet the straight piece below, I would run a continuous groove for a spline. As the sections get clamped up, they will compress together. Individual splines or dowels that are a tight fit may not allow the little bit of movement to close up the gaps.

Over clamping could be a problem in stressing the laminated piece. Don't tighten too much, just get good contact.

BTW, in one of the pictures the laminated piece looks like one section had delaminated slightly. Could be from over tightening, or a poor glue up. That piece may be a problem.










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post #5 of 14 Old 11-28-2010, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onebulous View Post
I'm looking for some guidance, being new to woodworking. Please regard the attached photo. I'm looking for a method to determine where to make cuts on the outer edges of an arched piece of bent, laminated wood to best make it fit within two curved legs, so there aren't any gaps prior to gluing. After the first rough cut was made, I've done several "creep up on it" cuts, scrapings, and sandings, Now I'm at the point where if I take to much off at the wrong point I could go past the intended alignment marks. The other bugga boo is that, there is a twist in one of the legs, consequently, two dimensional aids like tracing the pieces on paper, lining them up and overlaying them on the wood, don't quite work.
I have gone as far as requesting samples of tactile pressure indicating sheets, but I haven't received them yet. Expensive stuff!
Look forward to your suggestions.
I see what your talking about with the fit. You definitely need a little more off the middle to match the profile of the legs. I would trace the middle piece on to the paper marking the middle and a few reference lines of the legs coming down. now remove the middle piece and make sure the legs are where they should be. Trace the legs as close as you can. now you have the profile you need cut the pattern out use it to mark the middle piece with the profile, cut close to the line if needed and sand to the line with a spindle sander if you have one. If you don't have a spindle sander I would get a drum sander for a drill press because if you sand it at an angle one side will fit and the other would be off.

Your second set of pictures are much closer and may just need a little more sanding here and there. You seem to have the same fit on the curve and the top straight edge so that one if going to be really close. Same thing creep up on any line you draw with a spindle sander.

Looking at the first picture second set you may have already taken to much off at the top of the curve. That's based on your lines.

Last edited by rrbrown; 11-28-2010 at 07:50 AM.
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post #6 of 14 Old 11-28-2010, 11:35 AM
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your curved lam pc is allready coming apart. i would replace it with a solid pc and cut your curves. i would incorperate seperate m & t into the pc.
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post #7 of 14 Old 11-28-2010, 11:50 AM
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your curved lam pc is allready coming apart. i would replace it with a solid pc and cut your curves. i would incorperate seperate m & t into the pc.
Is it coming apart or was it just not glued totally there to start. I would try and get some glue in there and fix it if possible. Maybe next time he may want to go with solid wood, it appears this is the route he chose so lets try and help him fix this way.

The M&T would be another way of doing it but would require making a new piece. Then with the curves he still has to get the profiles to match. A spline like C'man said or even 2 dowels each side would be a way of working with what he has.
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post #8 of 14 Old 11-29-2010, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for your replies. On the piece where the lamination separated, some more glue was injected into the open space ,heat was applied and then clamped overnight. (The glue is Tightbond II) This brought the lamination together and looks OK.
I like the loose tenon idea and the continuous groove for a spline. But it may be biting off more then I can chew. I'm a novice at best. I may resort to glue, clamping and recessed screws.
I went through the process of retracing the pieces, trimming and sanding. This brought things pretty close to proper alignment. I even tried an experiment with inserting a thin strip of clay held in a plastic bag, then dry fitting and softly clamping to see if it would show gaps and high contact points needing sanding. Looked good on paper, but didn't pan out as I hoped. I still feel like there's something worth pursuing there in the future.
Thanks for all your suggestions.
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post #9 of 14 Old 11-29-2010, 12:14 PM
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OK I'll be the first ..

Are these "curved legs" already glued up in position to a structure above. WE need a photo from further back. It would be much easier to make tenons and fit your pieces if the legs are not fixed. Just wondering..... bill

BTW I've never seen this done, but I wonder if a curved backer adhered behind the belt and to the platten on a belt sander that matches the curvature of your legs would allow you to sand your
brace to that curvature. It may be the belt will just bridge any offset behind it...I donno?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 11-29-2010 at 12:17 PM.
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post #10 of 14 Old 11-30-2010, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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I'll try to answer all of your questions with a little bit of the projects history. The project is to build a cabinet for a biscuit brake, the first photo is as it came through the door. The design constraints are to build a graceful structure which will support the marble top. Underneath the marble there should be two drawers. In addition, make the whole thing be able to be mobile or stationary as needed. (the last bit is a whole other topic)
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post #11 of 14 Old 11-30-2010, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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So the curved legs and arch are an attempt to follow the lines of the wrought iron. In the picture below, you can see how the wrought iron overlays on the curved legs. The arch will be centered on the hole seen in the wrought iron's arch. There will be boards running between the bolt holes in the wrought iron feet. The curved legs will be joined to that board, mortise and tenon. All the pieces shown so are 1 1/2" thick, it is planned that all the other boards will be 3/4" thick.
So far, what's been glued up are the top pieces which will support the marble and house the drawers. Kind of wish they weren't, because as of right now, the plan is join the arch to the legs with a loose tenon and as was mentioned now it will be harder to chisel out the mortise.
I've read about modifying a belt sander to fit a curve, but didn't try it. So the next step, join the arch to the legs. Then either the drawers or fasten the leg's feet.
Oh yeah, the board at the top of the first two pictures is not glued. It was holding the pieces in place, there will be a board of the same thickness eventually there and will be beneath the marble.
Thanks again and I hope this puts things in perspective.
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post #12 of 14 Old 11-30-2010, 10:19 PM
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Ok, I'll ask....what is a biscuit brake?

Cool project!

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OH, wait a minute ............Yep!.............That's what he said!

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post #13 of 14 Old 12-01-2010, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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A Biscuit Brake is a 1882 circa machine used to help take the drudgery out of making beaten biscuits. Beaten biscuits were once so popular that special machines, called biscuits brakes, were manufactured to knead the dough in home kitchens. A biscuit brake typically consists of a pair of steel rollers geared together and operated by a crank, mounted on a small table with a marble top and cast iron legs.
It looks like the rollers on an old wringer washing machine, but the rollers have teeth or spokes on them. You turned a hand crank to make the rollers turn.
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post #14 of 14 Old 07-29-2011, 09:38 AM
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Just came across this thread. It may be too late but why not knock out a shallow mortise on the legs to inset the arch? Then the depth of the mortise will cover irregularities on the arch. I've used it for some irregular insets previously and added biscuits or tennons for strength.
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