Festool Domino 700 vs Virutex FC16s - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 10-25-2013, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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Festool Domino 700 vs Virutex FC16s

For loose tenons, the Festool Domino 700 and the Virutex FC16s are about the same price. They both cut deep mortises. The Virutex has the advantage of cutting wide mortises as well (long slots). The Domino seems a bit more flexible and probably faster to set up.

I intend to make some doors. Later, some furniture. Which should I get?
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post #2 of 21 Old 10-25-2013, 04:20 PM
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You will get better responses if you provide links to the products.

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post #3 of 21 Old 10-25-2013, 11:20 PM
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I just looked up the 700 price and price of cutters. I don't know what to say. $1275 for the tool. $56 for the cutter. $65 for the tenon stock. Amazing. Those are some very costly joints. Millimeters?

Al

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post #4 of 21 Old 10-25-2013, 11:57 PM
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Festool Domino all the way

I'm not familiar with the Virutex FC16s but I have to say I have the Festool Domino and it is without a doubt my most valueable shop tool. I use it almost daily. The portability of it makes it awesome. In the less that one year since I got it I've gone through over 2700 tennons and it's still going strong. Also it does wide cuts, the green selector switch on the top of the machine, just back of the fence controls the width of your tennon holes. I cannot strongly enough recommend Festool's products. And I don't even work for them
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post #5 of 21 Old 10-26-2013, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al B Thayer View Post
I just looked up the 700 price and price of cutters. I don't know what to say. $1275 for the tool. $56 for the cutter. $65 for the tenon stock. Amazing. Those are some very costly joints. Millimeters?

Al

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I thought the same thing at first, but it's growing on me. You can cut your own dominos using a table saw and a router bit, so the price of the loose tenons is negligible.

After I wrote this, I looked at the tenon sizes. With the Festool domino 700, the largest tenon you can make is 14mm wide. That's the bit size. I think that comes out to about 1/2".

The Virutex's Smallest bit is 5/8". So apparently there isn't even overlap between the two. The Virutex is for very wide, deep, and long mortises, which makes it even more of a specialty tool than the domino.

I think I'll be getting the domino.
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post #6 of 21 Old 10-26-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevarthan

I thought the same thing at first, but it's growing on me. You can cut your own dominos using a table saw and a router bit, so the price of the loose tenons is negligible.

After I wrote this, I looked at the tenon sizes. With the Festool domino 700, the largest tenon you can make is 14mm wide. That's the bit size. I think that comes out to about 1/2".

The Virutex's Smallest bit is 5/8". So apparently there isn't even overlap between the two. The Virutex is for very wide, deep, and long mortises, which makes it even more of a specialty tool than the domino.

I think I'll be getting the domino.
I made a mortise machine from scraps around the shop and slides I got on eBay. I have less than $50 in it and it will do more than a domino. You can see it in my profile pics. There are many variations of these at a fraction of the cost. They do more and your not tied to Fe$tool for extremely expensive parts.

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I cut these with it in a heartbeat.

Al

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post #7 of 21 Old 10-26-2013, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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That looks like one of the many JDS multi-router clones. I've heard people say they cost $100 if you're frugal and source the bearings super cheap on ebay. I've never heard someone claim $50. Got a link to plans? Also, how long did it take to make?

I'm always suspicious of DIY kits. I really don't want to spend 100 hours building a tool. For my bill rate I could buy several festool 700s for the same amount of time, converted to cash. I made an exception for my workbench, but it's taught me a lot about woodworking that I would have to learn anyway. At this point, I'm really more interested in making doors than making more tools to make doors. I hope that makes sense.
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post #8 of 21 Old 10-27-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevarthan
That looks like one of the many JDS multi-router clones. I've heard people say they cost $100 if you're frugal and source the bearings super cheap on ebay. I've never heard someone claim $50. Got a link to plans? Also, how long did it take to make?

I'm always suspicious of DIY kits. I really don't want to spend 100 hours building a tool. For my bill rate I could buy several festool 700s for the same amount of time, converted to cash. I made an exception for my workbench, but it's taught me a lot about woodworking that I would have to learn anyway. At this point, I'm really more interested in making doors than making more tools to make doors. I hope that makes sense.
Well the design was by Greg Paolini. It wasn't a kit. After looking at the plans I took a few ideas and built my own. It can easily be built from my pictures. I didnt need the plan. He writes for Fine Woodworking, sells products and teaches. I used 8020 rails and bearings found on EBay. His version wasn't strong enough for me and I was already using 8020 on a panel saw I built. I sent him a picture of my unit and he responded favorably and called it very stout. It was a weekend build. The tool is a pleasure to use and I am amazed at how accurate it is.

What doors do you build? What's the Fe$tool maximum depth of cut?

Here are reasons to at least look into building the unit.

Built from scraps and Home Depot nuts and bolts.
Will not wear out. Bearings are overrated.
Easy setup using regular wench found in any tool box.
Accurate.
One full turn moves the router 1/16". So it micro adjusts to numbers difficult to see.
Mating parts use the same setting. I built 6 chairs with it.
No measuring.
Use any bit size needed instead of designing the project to fit the two Fe$tool has.
Cuts come out very crisp and clean. Reentering a hole to cut deeper does not effect the size. No wobble.
How deep can you go? longer bit cuts out deeper mortice or through mortice.
Wide range of sizes can be cut and marry up. Such as a 3" leg to a 3/4" skirt using the same settings.

BTW I saw a few on EBay going for less claiming to be only used once.

Al

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post #9 of 21 Old 10-28-2013, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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I think the festool domino 700 cuts 5.5" deep mortises.

I've also been looking at that big powermatic floor model mortising machine. About the same price as the festool, but takes up dedicated floor space and takes longer to operate.
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post #10 of 21 Old 10-28-2013, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevarthan View Post
For loose tenons, the Festool Domino 700 and the Virutex FC16s are about the same price. They both cut deep mortises. The Virutex has the advantage of cutting wide mortises as well (long slots). The Domino seems a bit more flexible and probably faster to set up.

I intend to make some doors. Later, some furniture. Which should I get?

here's a link to the Greg Paolini slot mortiser
http://www.gregorypaolini.com/?page_id=96

here's one by Matthias Wandel
http://woodgears.ca/tools.html
notice the pantorouter and the slot mortiser


here's a link to another "kit" mortiser that looks pretty cool
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post #11 of 21 Old 10-28-2013, 02:01 PM
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Hi Al, clean out your PMs, you cannot accept any more.
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post #12 of 21 Old 10-28-2013, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevarthan
I think the festool domino 700 cuts 5.5" deep mortises.

I've also been looking at that big powermatic floor model mortising machine. About the same price as the festool, but takes up dedicated floor space and takes longer to operate.
I guess that 5.5 is total length. Nice machine but it does not have the capacity I needed to do the 6 dining chairs. I also used some 3.5" tenons. Does it cut longer slots? It would surely replace my PC biscuit jointer. Just too much money.

Al

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post #13 of 21 Old 10-31-2013, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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It does have the capacity to cut longer slots, yes. I've seen people use the pins to make multiple cuts resulting in a longer slot. However, I think the max mortise depth is 70mm, or 2.5 inches deep, unless you cut a through mortise from both ends (tricky to align).

Last edited by trevarthan; 10-31-2013 at 01:47 PM.
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post #14 of 21 Old 10-31-2013, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevarthan
It does have the capacity to cut longer slots, yes. I've seen people use the pins to make multiple cuts resulting in a longer slot. However, I think the max mortise depth is 70mm, or 2.5 inches deep, unless you cut a through mortise from both ends (tricky to align).
Hey I just saw a Domino 500 on EBay brand new for $825 free shipping. Is that a good deal?

Al

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Last edited by Al B Thayer; 10-31-2013 at 11:32 PM.
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post #15 of 21 Old 10-31-2013, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevarthan
It does have the capacity to cut longer slots, yes. I've seen people use the pins to make multiple cuts resulting in a longer slot. However, I think the max mortise depth is 70mm, or 2.5 inches deep, unless you cut a through mortise from both ends (tricky to align).
I can cut through mortises and cut through both ends and it isn't tricky to align. I can cut a mortise as long as the bit. I can also cut every size under the sun.

Al

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post #16 of 21 Old 11-01-2013, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Al B Thayer View Post
Hey I just saw a Domino 500 on EBay brand new for $825 free shipping. Is that a good deal?

Al

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Hey Al, I think that it's a good deal as far as deals on green go but, the warranty would be void if it's not a dealer...

Paul
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post #17 of 21 Old 11-01-2013, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Al B Thayer View Post
I can cut through mortises and cut through both ends and it isn't tricky to align. I can cut a mortise as long as the bit. I can also cut every size under the sun.

Al

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Every tool has limitations. Using the festool within it's intended design params will be quick and efficient. If you need something else, you might be better off with a different tool.

I can chisel any sized mortise with a tool I blacksmithed from a piece of scrap metal, but that doesn't mean I can do it in a reasonable amount of time. (I fully intend to give this a try soon btw - home made mortising chisel!)
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post #18 of 21 Old 11-01-2013, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevarthan

Every tool has limitations. Using the festool within it's intended design params will be quick and efficient. If you need something else, you might be better off with a different tool.

I can chisel any sized mortise with a tool I blacksmithed from a piece of scrap metal, but that doesn't mean I can do it in a reasonable amount of time. (I fully intend to give this a try soon btw - home made mortising chisel!)
I do have a different tool. It does it all as described and then some. I've built many machines. Some for me and many as an occupation. Anything I post here as been tested, used and proven to be a worth while idea. Otherwise I wouldn't share it. I use the Ben Franklin rule. No patents no secrets. I would hope others would expound on my work and come up with improvements for the betterment of woodworking and all that love doing it.

Al

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post #19 of 21 Old 11-01-2013, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilepaul

Hey Al, I think that it's a good deal as far as deals on green go but, the warranty would be void if it's not a dealer...

Paul
It's a dealer but the tool I just not for me. If I need to make those kinds of joints I use the biscuit jointer.

Al

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post #20 of 21 Old 11-01-2013, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Al B Thayer View Post
It's a dealer but the tool I just not for me. If I need to make those kinds of joints I use the biscuit jointer.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.
Al,

It's my understanding that if a dealer sells any of the festool gear below retail, unless sanctioned by Big Green themselves or used/refurb, they lose their dealer status.
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