Farmhouse table trial run. No jointer so how to edge boards. And other q's... - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 07:54 AM
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This will definitely be my last post on this matter.

I sincerely apologize to cabinet man for my iPhones'' auto correcting of the term splining.

If I knew how to update my profile I would. I was actually trying last night and couldnt seem to find an option. Perhaps someone could help me out...not likely since bullying seems to be the theme here.

Looks like there is some kind of woodworkers mafia within the forum here...and it's becoming quite clear who's in and who's not.
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post #22 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfitloghunter View Post
This will definitely be my last post on this matter.

I sincerely apologize to cabinet man for my iPhones'' auto correcting of the term splining.

If I knew how to update my profile I would. I was actually trying last night and couldnt seem to find an option. Perhaps someone could help me out...not likely since bullying seems to be the theme here.

Looks like there is some kind of woodworkers mafia within the forum here...and it's becoming quite clear who's in and who's not.
Go up to the black bar at the upper portion on the page where on the left, it has "User CP". Left click on that. Your page will come up. On the left you will see "Your Control Panel", and below that, "Your Profile"... "Edit Your Details". Left click on that, and you have the page to edit. When making changes or editing, and done, scroll to the bottom of the page, and left click "Save Changes".

"Woodworkers mafia"...that's funny.





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post #23 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 08:16 AM
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Thank you. I have never belonged to anything like this and need to learn the ropes
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post #24 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 09:16 AM
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Welcome misfitloghunter. Sorry you're first encounter on the forum wasn't a jovial one, but I think you'll find almost always people here are very encouraging and helpful in teaching. I think firemedic was just upset cause he knows LSU has to play Auburn soon and he's shakin in his boots
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post #25 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 10:09 AM
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The problem I see is more and more of a push on here by some members to badger people out of discussing things like pocket holes or biscuits. There's a taboo about using or discussing them for fear of bashing about junk joinery...the problem is though that for many new to woodworking, they can be a gateway joinery method that builds confidence and successes. The idea of planning, and executing my m&t coffee table I recently finished would have been daunting to the point I likely wouldn't have attempted it six or seven years ago...I'd have probably went out and bought one instead. But my first tv stand which was put together with pocket hole joinery built confidence that I could do woodworking well. The next project was built with dados and biscuits....the one after that had some mortises....and now I'm comfortable with mortise an tennons, dovetails, sliding dovetails...ect. Had I when I was new in this hobby attempted dovetails...I have likely walked away frustrated.

No one is claiming or expecting that pocket holes or biscuits are the end all be all of woodworking, but they surely have their place and new woodworkers should be encouraged to try things, not be bashed for trying things others don't like.


Just my two cents....

The tools don't make the craftsman....
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post #26 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan50hrl View Post
The problem I see is more and more of a push on here by some members to badger people out of discussing things like pocket holes or biscuits. There's a taboo about using or discussing them for fear of bashing about junk joinery...the problem is though that for many new to woodworking, they can be a gateway joinery method that builds confidence and successes.
I don't agree that members are badgered. Since you used my words...that they are junk joinery, that's my opinion. For a member to come on to a woodworking forum and not get suggestions as to traditional woodworking joinery would be a waste of the knowledge that's available.

For the time and money buying jigs and tools, and learning how to use them, could be put to better use in learning the joints and how to make them. That's woodworking. I think that members get advice on many scores on how to do things. For the most part some continue on with using the methods they are comfortable with.





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post #27 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 11:37 AM
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A thread on biscuit joiner builds

Right off, I'll say I don't use it in the "recommended" manner. It has a large base, so instead of the smaller fence I reference it off the work bench surface....much better control in my opinion. I did NOT read the instructions, so that' was just intuitive to me, a larger surface is a better reference...Duh.



http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/bi...t-buddy-48967/

Any process, procedure or tool is appropriate if it solves a need. There may be associated issues not apparent at first, but that's why we have these discussions, to instruct and inform. Some of us are at the top of our game, others are starting out and still others are on their way "up" . It doesn't matter to me how you get there, as long as there is continuous improvement along the way.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-10-2013 at 07:18 PM.
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post #28 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 11:57 AM
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MFLH,

This forum is like a family.

Families have disagreements. We'll get over it.

The disagreement about biscuits and pocket screws was going on long before you joined us.

Pleased don't be discouraged by the arguing going on here.

New members are welcome and encouraged to fully participate.

PS I started out with pocket screws and biscuits. Although I'm moving away from them as I learn more about traditional joinery I will keep the kits as part of my arsenal.

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did in his
sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car.

Jack Handey
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post #29 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K
Skills build on skills. Let them learn correctly and skill-build. "It's my first project" is the absolute worst excuse for crap, like pocket screws, and serves as a disservice to beginners everywhere.
.
How does the new guy that might be really proud of his first pocket hole project feel after reading this comment?

I doubt he's very interested in posting about it.....

Now the first line and the rest of the quote are contradictory in my opinion. Pocket joints are a basic skill...other joinery methods can build off of that.


I'm not trying to start a debate about pocket joinery...I don't use it much myself anymore....what I'm trying to say is it has its place in building confidence and interest in woodworking, and we too often I think discount it's value in that.

And cabinetman....your not the first to say junk joinery....this was not directed at you, but more a rhetorical point for all...

The tools don't make the craftsman....
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post #30 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 01:04 PM
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The irony in all this is that I don't get much use out of biscuit joinery myself. I just thought the initial statement by fire medic claiming that biscuits offer no alignment aid regardless of what anyone says to be an overstatement.
The real discussion should be where to find good biscuits of consistent thickness. Carry on.
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post #31 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfitloghunter View Post
The real discussion should be where to find good biscuits of consistent thickness. Carry on.
Popeyes
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post #32 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 05:38 PM
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I use pocket screws on every stair I build. I use them as a clamping method to glue the riser to the bottom of the tread. While this may not be the traditional method of using them, I've found them to be very effective. If someone could offer a more efficient way of glueing these together I would love to hear it.

I missed one, I also use them to glue together stringers prior to routing for treads and although I have literally a couple hundred clamps they work as well, in this application, as clamps and are faster to ensemble. I also use Dominos for alinement.
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post #33 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 06:14 PM
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We always used pocket screws for the riser to tread fastening as well. Additionally, we would fasten an angled hardwood strip underneath each joint as well. There's a great application
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post #34 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfitloghunter

The real discussion should be where to find good biscuits of consistent thickness. Carry on.
You make a good point but I doubt that's possible.

Assuming that bisquits are shipped at a consistent thickness from the mfr the end user in Louisiana is going to be using a thicker biscuit than the user in Needles, CA. due to difs in humidity.

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did in his
sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car.

Jack Handey
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post #35 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 07:16 PM
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there is a "workaround"

Quote:
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.
The real discussion should be where to find good biscuits of consistent thickness. Carry on.
Make some slots accurately in some scrap pieces and take them with you to the Home Depot or where you get your biscuits ...bakery dept at Meijers...etc. After testing them for a good fit,, buy 'em or walk on by. When you find the good ones for your blade, mark down the source on the machine on a piece of tape OR make a note in your IPhone Notes..

I use Porter Cable biscuits in my Dewalt jointer with good results when I'm paying attention to the registration of the base.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #36 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 07:29 PM
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Back To The Topic

Quote:
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Make some slots accurately in some scrap pieces and take them with you to the Home Depot or where you get your biscuits ...bakery dept at Meijers...etc. After testing them for a good fit,, buy 'em or walk on by. When you find the good ones for your blade, mark down the source on the machine on a piece of tape OR make a note in your IPhone Notes..

I use Porter Cable biscuits in my Dewalt jointer with good results when I'm paying attention to the registration of the base.
Is biscuit size pertinent to the OP? In any case, one of the problems with biscuits is that they aren't all the same size...Porter Cable or not. Same container or not.






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post #37 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 08:00 PM
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That was exactly my point.

I prefer them loose anyways, which arguably defeats the purpose.
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post #38 of 45 Old 09-10-2013, 08:50 PM
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maybe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
Is biscuit size pertinent to the OP? In any case, one of the problems with biscuits is that they aren't all the same size...Porter Cable or not. Same container or not.



I thought you hated them, didn't use them and thought they were junk joinery ..... How would you know they are not the same thickness, even from the same container...just askin'

Another workaround, if you have one that's too loose ....don't use that one.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #39 of 45 Old 09-11-2013, 06:58 AM
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You're Just Confused

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I thought you hated them, didn't use them and thought they were junk joinery ..... How would you know they are not the same thickness, even from the same container...just askin'

Another workaround, if you have one that's too loose ....don't use that one.
I don't think I ever used the word "hate". Don't know where you came up with that. I don't comment on products or methods that I haven't tried or done. I don't respond with an answer, and then say "I donno".

Of course I've used biscuits and pocket hole joinery. And in doing so decided that "junk joinery" was an appropriate description compared to other methods.





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post #40 of 45 Old 09-11-2013, 07:37 AM
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confused? not me.

I knew the word "hate" would get to you that's why I used it. You are the biggest "basher" of the method, "junk joinery", on the forum AFAICT, but I could be wrong...I donno? used that just to get to you... I use it when I don't know sometimes and then even when I do know, just leavin' the door open. I don't have a "self appointed expert" user name, to lend authority to my opinions, so I take the more humble approach. I could be wrong, but that seems to work for me, I donno?

You've made your opinion well known, but it's a method that is widely used by many here and in the field. Dewalt and other manufacturers have made several million $$$ making the devices, and others have copied them as well. If the "old school" guys like yourself don't like/hate them, that's fine with me. I've used them and have shown my examples and methods for those who would like to try them. I don't see why we can't have different opinions about them, this is what a forum is all about... but I could be wrong again, I donno?


I rest my case for for the use of biscuit joinery in certain applications. Do as you choose. Best of luck, bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-11-2013 at 07:53 AM.
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