Epoxy for wood - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 23Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 37 Old 08-19-2019, 07:59 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
That doesn't prove anything beyond that type of epoxy not working in that particular application however many years ago. Maybe for that situation yeahz that epoxy was a bad choice because of low flexibility leading to broken glue joints or similar

The bottom line here is that presenting one, personal opinion as a solid fact is a fallacy, and a blanket statement like "epoxy isn't an appropriate glue for wood" is factually wrong to put it nicely. Does epoxy work everywhere? No. Neither do PVA adhesives.
We were just gluing narrow strips of ash and Honduras mahogany in a gentle curve to make tiller handles for boars. It maybe had a 3/4" bow in 4' and was enough pressure to cause the joints to fail.

Over the years I've had other failures with epoxy gluing it steel or other non-porous things. In hindsight I believe it has as much to do with wood movement as anything. Epoxy dries harder than PVA therefore more likely to crack. Sometimes you don't have a choice though. PVA won't bond to steel where epoxy will. It just makes sense that if you are gluing new wood to new wood you use a glue formulated for wood.
Steve Neul is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 37 Old 08-19-2019, 09:29 PM
Administrator
 
Cricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,346
View Cricket's Photo Album My Photos
I don't know how many more different ways I can say this. The bickering simply has to stop. Honestly, NO ONE wants to hear it. We are all either part of the problem or we are part of the solution. It doesn't matter who said what. We can CHOOSE not to respond to the nonsense, report it, and then simply scroll past it all. If we engage in the bickering we are absolutely part of the issue.

We all have different opinions. That's real life.

Can you imagine how boring things would be if we all agreed on everything?

I encourage open discussions. It is how we all learn.

That being said, woodworking isn't an angry debate, even when we disagree.

When a member asks a question, the odds are very good that there will be a wide range of answers, some of which may be the complete opposite of what you believe. When we see a post (in the responses) that we don't agree with, it is not up to us to prove why their response is right or wrong, or why we think our response it better. Doing so will only confuse the original point of the discussion. Sometimes there is no right or wrong answer. It is up to the original poster to determine which response makes the most sense to them.

Treat each other with respect.

Respect For Others In The Community

This thread will be closed while I clean up the nonsense.

"Show respect even to people who donít deserve it, not as a reflection of their character, but as a reflection of yours."
Cricket is offline  
post #23 of 37 Old 08-19-2019, 10:25 PM
Administrator
 
Cricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,346
View Cricket's Photo Album My Photos
This thread is now open.

@homestd we apologize for the disruption to your thread.

Let's get back to woodworking now.

"Show respect even to people who donít deserve it, not as a reflection of their character, but as a reflection of yours."
Cricket is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 37 Old 08-20-2019, 10:27 AM
Senior Member
 
Pineknot_86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,942
View Pineknot_86's Photo Album My Photos
Titebond III gets my vote. Remember the Indians used tree gum or hide glue to build canoes.
FWIW, I pulled off some 2x4s that the previous owner used to mount tool racks. The wood came off with pieces of concrete block.

A diamond is how coal reacts under pressure.
Pineknot_86 is offline  
post #25 of 37 Old 08-20-2019, 10:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NE FL
Posts: 478
View DrRobert's Photo Album My Photos
You can tape off the joints prior to gluing.
DrRobert is offline  
post #26 of 37 Old 08-20-2019, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: SE, KY
Posts: 171
View homestd's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineknot_86 View Post
Titebond III gets my vote. Remember the Indians used tree gum or hide glue to build canoes.
FWIW, I pulled off some 2x4s that the previous owner used to mount tool racks. The wood came off with pieces of concrete block.
Yes, When I was doing custom millwork years ago, hyde glue was all we used. It's a damn good bond. I really don't know why I'm not using it today.


homestd is offline  
post #27 of 37 Old 08-20-2019, 02:41 PM
Senior Member
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Motown
Posts: 587
View _Ogre's Photo Album My Photos
jbweld also makes jbwood, it is a 2 part epoxy that works well outside
i have a laminated 6 foot radius deck rail that i built 18 years ago
it has needed a few repairs over the years mostly due to knots that cause rot/delamination
i repaired it a few times with waterproof fillers that failed within a year or 2
7 yrs ago i tried the jbwood, have yet to have a failure

i originally tried the twin tube pack for a few knot voids on top of the rail, it hasn't failed in 7 yrs
it is thin enough to flow into cracks



i ended up skim coating the top of the radius 5 yrs ago and used the bigger putty kit
it is a lot thicker and goes on like thick filler
still looks good



i'd use the twin tube for glue up and small filling, i used masking tape to contain the flow
the putty pack for bigger filling of rotted areas, just gouge out to good wood and fill
homestd likes this.
_Ogre is offline  
post #28 of 37 Old 08-20-2019, 02:42 PM
Senior Member
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Motown
Posts: 587
View _Ogre's Photo Album My Photos
and thank you cricket, the bickering of a few gets tiring
_Ogre is offline  
post #29 of 37 Old 08-20-2019, 02:46 PM
Senior Member
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Motown
Posts: 587
View _Ogre's Photo Album My Photos
west systems also has renovation wood epoxy fillers
very pricey $$$ compared to jbwoodweld
_Ogre is offline  
post #30 of 37 Old 08-21-2019, 12:06 AM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,906
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
We were just gluing narrow strips of ash and Honduras mahogany in a gentle curve to make tiller handles for boars. It maybe had a 3/4" bow in 4' and was enough pressure to cause the joints to fail.

Over the years I've had other failures with epoxy gluing it steel or other non-porous things. In hindsight I believe it has as much to do with wood movement as anything. Epoxy dries harder than PVA therefore more likely to crack. Sometimes you don't have a choice though. PVA won't bond to steel where epoxy will. It just makes sense that if you are gluing new wood to new wood you use a glue formulated for wood.
Like i said, wrong glue for that application. Again, there are epoxies meant to be more flexible that wouldve worked perfectly for that application. This is why no matter how much experience someone has, research is always necessary, because sometimes you miss out on the perfect solution to a problem.

Ill keep championing it, the G-Flex epoxy is fantastic stuff for wood things, and West Systems in general makes excellent products. Even their standard epoxies work great as general purpose wood glues, for things like furniture joints, i.e mortise and tenons and the like. Stands up to seasonal movement just fine in those situations.

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is online now  
post #31 of 37 Old 11-01-2019, 09:53 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 108
View B Coll's Photo Album My Photos
Epoxy

I would go with epoxy, I prefer West System. It is excellent for outdoors and will fill any small voids structurally. If it is going to be exposed it needs to be coated. Epoxy is susceptible to UV breakdown.
B Coll is offline  
post #32 of 37 Old 12-01-2019, 11:16 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
View stevekir's Photo Album My Photos
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by homestd View Post
Titebond III I have...Thanks Steve
Is Titebond another name for PVA glue, which I use in the UK. Its full name is Polyvinylacetate (I think), it is white?
stevekir is offline  
post #33 of 37 Old 12-01-2019, 11:35 AM
Cat Herder
 
ChiknNutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Triad, NC (from the PNW)
Posts: 554
View ChiknNutz's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekir View Post
Is Titebond another name for PVA glue, which I use in the UK. Its full name is Polyvinylacetate (I think), it is white?
Titebond is but one brand of PVA glue.

Chris A.
Live a life worth celebrating!

Ridgid R4221 12" CMS, R4330 Planer | Bosch MRC23EVSK Router, 1591EVSL Jigsaw, PB360S Power Box | JDS Air-Tech HP air cleaner | Grizzly 14" bandsaw (Laguna LT14 clone), Jet DC-1100VX-CK Dust Collector | Festool Rotex 150/5 FEQ, CT 36 E, ETS EC125/3, TS75, Domino XL | Incra "Works" LS25 router table | Grizzly G1023RL
ChiknNutz is offline  
post #34 of 37 Old 12-01-2019, 12:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,571
View Tool Agnostic's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekir View Post
Is Titebond another name for PVA glue, which I use in the UK. Its full name is Polyvinylacetate (I think), it is white?
Titebond is a brand name, best known for their polyvinylacetate (PVA) wood glues. They make many different adhesives, but the PVA wood glue is what I think of when I hear "Titebond." Titebond is not the only brand of wood glue here in the USA, but they dominate the wood glue market. The wood glue bottles and their packaging colors (colours) are instantly recognizable to every woodworker in the USA. We refer to them as Titebond I, Titebond II, and Titebond III. See:
http://www.titebond.com/community/the-big-three

* Titebond I is basic PVA wood glue. It is yellow.
* Titebond II cures stronger, but gives a shorter working time than Titebond I. It is water resistant. It is yellow.
* Titebond III cures slightly stronger and gives the longest working time. It is waterproof. It is gray (grey).

The terms "water resistant" and "waterproof" refer to specific tests that they use. Water resistant glue is sometimes known as a "Type II glue" and waterproof glue as a "Type I glue."

Rumor or Truth about Added Yellow Color?
I have been told that Titebond I and II are actually white, but Titebond adds yellow dye. In the old days, woodworkers were used to yellow wood glue. When white PVA glues came out, Titebond added the yellow dye to maintain expectations. Now it is a tradition. Believe it or not.

In addition to Titebond I, II, and III, Titebond makes other specialty PVA wood glues such as "Extend" for longer work times, Quick and Thick, Cold Press Veneer, and others. They also sell non-PVA glues, such as Liquid Hide Glue, CA glue, Polyurethane glue, etc.

Titebond isn't that special. There are other brands of PVA wood glues available in the US, but Titebond dominates the market. (I have read that Gorilla's PVA wood glue is not as good.) I keep Titebond III in the shop and use it as my only PVA wood glue. It costs more than Titebond I and II, but glue cost is not factor in my projects. With Titebond III, I never worry that I have the "right" wood glue.

Last edited by Tool Agnostic; 12-01-2019 at 12:53 PM.
Tool Agnostic is offline  
post #35 of 37 Old 12-09-2019, 05:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 176
View fareastern's Photo Album My Photos
I probably should have posted this earlier in the thread; you can download the Gougeon brothers book about epoxy and boatbuilding absolutely free at https://www.westsystem.com/wp-conten...k-061205-1.pdf .They are the people behind the WEST range of products and the book has been updated over the 40 years it has been in circulation.
homestd likes this.
fareastern is offline  
post #36 of 37 Old 12-09-2019, 07:30 AM
Senior Member
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dickinson, Tx. / Somerville, TX
Posts: 3,877
View Tony B's Photo Album My Photos
Would like to make 4 things clear

1. Epoxy is made from epoxy resins. Not all 2 component products are epoxies Must say "Epoxy"

2. Dont over tighten your clamps. Epoxy uses a moderate pressure not a complete cranking down.

3. Not all epoxy resins mix the same way. Some 3 to 1, some 5 to 1 , some 1 to 1.

4. There are also thickeners for epoxy. Some thickeners are designed to make the bond stronger and some are made to be sanded easily

Read the instructions

Tony B



Retired woodworker, amongst other things, Sold full time cruising boat and now full time cruising in RV. Currently in Somerville, Tx
Tony B is offline  
post #37 of 37 Old 12-10-2019, 06:24 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
View stevekir's Photo Album My Photos
Squeezeout. I have solved the problem. There are two ways: before the mortices are cut, and after.


Before: I put some tape over the parts (both sides of the "line") where the blunt end of the mitre cut will appear - 8 pieces of tape for the four mitres. Then I cut the mitres as usual and with a little luck the tapes will remain but only right up to the blunt side of the cut, the rest of the tape having been cut away with the mitreing. That is all that is necessary. After assembly and waiting for a few minutes for the squeezeout to thicken a little, I remove both tapes, together, from each mitre. The squeezeout comes away with the tapes and leaves none behing.


After: I put some tape accurately on and along the blunt line of the mitre (not of course on the surface where the intended glue will go) - again 8 pieces. Then assemble the joint and as above, After assembly and waiting for a few minutes for the squeezeout to thicken a little, I remove both tapes, together, from each mitre. The squeezeout comes away with the tapes and leaves none behing.


These methods prevent even any glue contaminating where it shouldn't be, thus preventing trouble when staining the wood. Fiddly but effective.
Tool Agnostic likes this.

Last edited by stevekir; 12-10-2019 at 06:27 AM.
stevekir is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome