Epoxy for wood - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 19Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 30 Old 08-11-2019, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: SE, KY
Posts: 31
View homestd's Photo Album My Photos
Epoxy for wood

I'm having to rebuild an exterior door frame that rotted on the lower end (long story, don't ask how). I've machined out the moulding to match and done the threshold. I need to glue a 2-1/2" ship-lap to add the new to the old. It's an exterior door and I'm thinking epoxy, but what I have on hand doesn't do wood. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Mother is the necessity of most invention.
homestd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 Old 08-11-2019, 09:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,988
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by homestd View Post
I'm having to rebuild an exterior door frame that rotted on the lower end (long story, don't ask how). I've machined out the moulding to match and done the threshold. I need to glue a 2-1/2" ship-lap to add the new to the old. It's an exterior door and I'm thinking epoxy, but what I have on hand doesn't do wood. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Epoxy will work however it is better suited for non-porous materials. On new wood you would get better results with an exterior wood glue such as titebond III.
homestd likes this.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #3 of 30 Old 08-12-2019, 04:26 AM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,581
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by homestd View Post
...but what I have on hand doesn't do wood
Wait, what? Is this like, an epoxy plumbers putty or something? Epoxy is one of those glues that really doesnt care what it gets stuck to, long as the surface is prepared properly it sticks. About the only exception to that that i know of is polyethylene/propylene, and nothing sticks to those.

Recommendations though, it really shouldnt matter, any decent 2 part epoxy will bond wood pretty well. As a general rule, the longer the glue takes to cure, the higher the strength is, so go with the slowest cure you can manage. The 15 and 30 minute cures are a good all-around choice, 5 minute epoxys cure to fast and arent strong enough in my opinion, and not everybody has the time for a 24 hour cure.

My personal favorite epoxy is West Systems G-Flex. Strongest crap ive ever used, a butt joint between some cocobolo and ebony that i did with 0 surface prep resulted in a joint that i had to lean on a pipe wrench to break. Downside is the 24 hour cure time. If you can stomach that though, the strength is insane and its surprisingly flexible, so seasonal movement wont break the joint
homestd likes this.

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to epicfail48 For This Useful Post:
homestd (08-12-2019)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 30 Old 08-12-2019, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: SE, KY
Posts: 31
View homestd's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Epoxy will work however it is better suited for non-porous materials. On new wood you would get better results with an exterior wood glue such as titebond III.

Titebond III I have...Thanks Steve

Mother is the necessity of most invention.
homestd is offline  
post #5 of 30 Old 08-12-2019, 09:37 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NE FL
Posts: 114
View DrRobert's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Epoxy will work however it is better suited for non-porous materials. On new wood you would get better results with an exterior wood glue such as titebond III.

Sorry but this is not correct. Epoxy is an excellent adhesive for wood. I use it for laminating curved wood, repairing knot holes, and glue- ups where I need a long open time or for exterior applications like yours.

IMO it is an excellent choice for your situation where complete waterproofing is desire.

TIII, although "waterproof" can't hold a candle to epoxy in this regard (think "boats")
DrRobert is offline  
post #6 of 30 Old 08-12-2019, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: SE, KY
Posts: 31
View homestd's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRobert View Post
Sorry but this is not correct. Epoxy is an excellent adhesive for wood. I use it for laminating curved wood, repairing knot holes, and glue- ups where I need a long open time or for exterior applications like yours.

IMO it is an excellent choice for your situation where complete waterproofing is desire.

TIII, although "waterproof" can't hold a candle to epoxy in this regard (think "boats")

Yeah...That was my original line of thought. Whatever I end up using will be well clamped and cured for at least 24.

Mother is the necessity of most invention.
homestd is offline  
post #7 of 30 Old 08-12-2019, 03:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,988
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRobert View Post
Sorry but this is not correct. Epoxy is an excellent adhesive for wood. I use it for laminating curved wood, repairing knot holes, and glue- ups where I need a long open time or for exterior applications like yours.

IMO it is an excellent choice for your situation where complete waterproofing is desire.

TIII, although "waterproof" can't hold a candle to epoxy in this regard (think "boats")
I don't agree. An adhesive works better on wood if it penetrates into the wood fibers and epoxy doesn't penetrate very much. While it will work a wood glue will penetrate into the wood better. It's especially formulated for wood where epoxy is formulated for surfaces that are not porous.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #8 of 30 Old 08-13-2019, 08:58 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Adirondacks
Posts: 48
View Frost's Photo Album My Photos
Is this a horizontal surface that will catch rain water?

If so, I'd use epoxy. Boatbuilders have used it for decades, never heard of TB3 being used on boats, at least below the waterline. Added benefit to epoxy is that it has gap filling properties so if pieces don't fit perfectly they will still be solidly joined and water tight, add some thickener as needed.
Frost is offline  
post #9 of 30 Old 08-13-2019, 10:45 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NE FL
Posts: 114
View DrRobert's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
I don't agree. An adhesive works better on wood if it penetrates into the wood fibers and epoxy doesn't penetrate very much. While it will work a wood glue will penetrate into the wood better. It's especially formulated for wood where epoxy is formulated for surfaces that are not porous.
Sorry you don't agree, but nevertheless, you are mistaken.
Epoxy does penetrate, but the way epoxy works, even if it didn't it would still work.

I suggest you do some research. There are numerous articles and build videos that help you.
DrRobert is offline  
post #10 of 30 Old 08-13-2019, 04:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,988
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRobert View Post
Sorry you don't agree, but nevertheless, you are mistaken.
Epoxy does penetrate, but the way epoxy works, even if it didn't it would still work.

I suggest you do some research. There are numerous articles and build videos that help you.
I really don't need to research. I've been around for more than 45 years in the woodworking profession and I've seen it done both ways.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #11 of 30 Old 08-13-2019, 04:25 PM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,581
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
I really don't need to research. I've been around for more than 45 years in the woodworking profession and I've seen it done both ways.
Steve, I respect your opinions on a lot of things, but that statement is mind-numbingly arogant. Nobody knows everything, no matter how long they've been doing something, and dismissing something based on actual, quantifiable research because you've been in the field is just plain wrong. If you believe you don't need to do any research because you know that epoxy doesn't work on wood, you need to do more research:
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/w...ood-by-wright/

If you look at the yield strength data, you'll notice that epoxies work just as well, if not better, than standard PVA wood glues in terms of strength, and in some applications epoxy is just the flat out better choice. Boat building is one that has already come up repeatedly.

Its nice to have an opinion and everybody is entitled to their own, but presenting a false opinion as a fact, telling people that they're wrong and declaring that you dont need to do any research to back up your point is something that shouldn't happen from anybody here, least of all a moderator

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #12 of 30 Old 08-13-2019, 05:24 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 41
View Buckmark13's Photo Album My Photos
Most epoxys will penetrate most woods. How much they penetrate is a variable based on numerous factors, but they typically do penetrate nonetheless.

Boats, oars, paddles, wooden surfboards, etc. are all examples of just how effective epoxies can be when used on wood.

Most epoxy manufacturers now have what they refer to as "penetrating epoxy". Again, how much they truly penetrate is dependent upon a number of variables. West Systems and MAS are two that I've used extensively.
Buckmark13 is offline  
post #13 of 30 Old 08-13-2019, 05:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,988
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
Steve, I respect your opinions on a lot of things, but that statement is mind-numbingly arogant. Nobody knows everything, no matter how long they've been doing something, and dismissing something based on actual, quantifiable research because you've been in the field is just plain wrong. If you believe you don't need to do any research because you know that epoxy doesn't work on wood, you need to do more research:
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/w...ood-by-wright/

If you look at the yield strength data, you'll notice that epoxies work just as well, if not better, than standard PVA wood glues in terms of strength, and in some applications epoxy is just the flat out better choice. Boat building is one that has already come up repeatedly.

Its nice to have an opinion and everybody is entitled to their own, but presenting a false opinion as a fact, telling people that they're wrong and declaring that you dont need to do any research to back up your point is something that shouldn't happen from anybody here, least of all a moderator
I never said epoxy doesn't work on wood. It's just the experience I've had with it over the years that a PVA glue works better for well fitted parts. On something that is a re-glue the epoxy is better hands down.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #14 of 30 Old 08-14-2019, 01:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 125
View fareastern's Photo Album My Photos
Either type of glue should work up to a point.The point where it doesn't work is if the piece you are attempting to glue moves across it's width and the fibres in contact with the glue pull away from the bulk of the piece.By selecting a quarter sawn piece you will reduce the risk of this happening.
fareastern is offline  
post #15 of 30 Old 08-18-2019, 02:32 PM
Former Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,511
View 35015's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by homestd View Post
I'm having to rebuild an exterior door frame that rotted on the lower end (long story, don't ask how). I've machined out the moulding to match and done the threshold. I need to glue a 2-1/2" ship-lap to add the new to the old. It's an exterior door and I'm thinking epoxy, but what I have on hand doesn't do wood. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
To you general question Charlie...without knowing the conditions the door is subjected to on a regular basis, I can't really give a good definitive reply...or..."good recommendation."

You may not need an epoxy at all and only a good "all weather" adhesive (like Titebond III)...or...you may very well need an actual wood solidifying epoxy and thus also other targeted epoxy adhesives meant specifically for your given application like the line that Abatron (et al) produces?

Let me know if this is of value or if I can expand further on what I shared...Feel free to email directly as I only post on weekends here generally to avoid the constant "debating," on too many posts...
homestd likes this.
35015 is online now  
post #16 of 30 Old 08-18-2019, 11:39 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: SE, KY
Posts: 31
View homestd's Photo Album My Photos
Hey all...Thanks to everyone, I didn't mean to start a ruckus. LOL


I'm going with the G-Flex. I've got a pretty good fit on the joints but I don't plan on repeating this operation...EVER! Just one question...what is best for cleaning up the epoxy squeeze so these joints are pretty? By the way, I'll post a couple of before and afters when Its done.
35015 likes this.

Mother is the necessity of most invention.
homestd is offline  
post #17 of 30 Old 08-19-2019, 12:07 AM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,581
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by homestd View Post
Hey all...Thanks to everyone, I didn't mean to start a ruckus. LOL


I'm going with the G-Flex. I've got a pretty good fit on the joints but I don't plan on repeating this operation...EVER! Just one question...what is best for cleaning up the epoxy squeeze so these joints are pretty? By the way, I'll post a couple of before and afters when Its done.
Youve got nothing to apologize for, you just stumbled into a bee hive... Really just boils down to authority and ego, but none of it is your fault

Good choice on the G-Flex, like i said its hands-down the best ive used, and shockingly theres next to no price premium on it. As far as cleanup of the squeeze-out goes, theres actually several methods you can use. The most obvious one is wiping it off with a solvent while its wet. Denatured alcohol and acetone both work well for this, but its a messy process. Ive hear tales that baby wipes do the job well, but i have more acetone on-hand than small children, so i cant vouch for that. You can also chip/sand the excess off after its cured, works but not my favorite method.

What i like doing, when the situation allows, is a bit of a compromise between the aforementioned methods, and will work for you if both the pieces are already pre-finished. First, dry assemble the joing, get everything looking how it will once the glueup is done, then wax the entire area. Dont get any wax where you want glue, of course, but get it everywhere that you dont want glue to end up. Once thats done, glue up as you would otherwise, but instead of walking away straight after, wait until the epoxy has gelled, bout an hour or so with the G-Flex. Then, come back and just pop off the squeeze out. No mess, no fuss, and the wax just buffs off afterwards. That said though, dont do this on unfinished pieces, the wax will prevent finishes from adhering!

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to epicfail48 For This Useful Post:
homestd (08-19-2019)
post #18 of 30 Old 08-19-2019, 01:29 AM
Allen Arin
 
Allen Arin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 16
View Allen Arin's Photo Album My Photos
Epoxy is the ideal material to make lasting fixes of spoiling window ledges, door frames and outside embellishment that are hard to expel and costly to supplant. Epoxy is anything but difficult to deal with as well. You blend it like treat batter, form it like demonstrating earth and, when it solidifies, you cut and sand it simply like wood. It sticks like insane and is defined to flex and move with the wood, so it won't split and drop out like some outside wood fillers.

There are many brands of epoxy the exact mixing and application procedures vary a bit depending upon the manufacturer you must follow the manufacturer's instruction carefully.
35015 likes this.
Allen Arin is offline  
post #19 of 30 Old 08-19-2019, 02:00 PM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,581
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
So, if you are manufacturing a product and it's being returned by the customer because of the type adhesive used you are suppose to ignore it? Say people on the internet say it's the best and accept it? We were using an exterior PVA adhesive and it was working great and epoxy was suggested so we tried it. Then when parts started coming back we when back to PVA and that solved the problem.

Again, I've been around for a long time and post my experiences.
That doesn't prove anything beyond that type of epoxy not working in that particular application however many years ago. Maybe for that situation yeahz that epoxy was a bad choice because of low flexibility leading to broken glue joints or similar

The bottom line here is that presenting one, personal opinion as a solid fact is a fallacy, and a blanket statement like "epoxy isn't an appropriate glue for wood" is factually wrong to put it nicely. Does epoxy work everywhere? No. Neither do PVA adhesives.
35015 likes this.

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #20 of 30 Old 08-19-2019, 04:56 PM
Former Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,511
View 35015's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by homestd View Post
Hey all...Thanks to everyone, I didn't mean to start a ruckus. LOL


I'm going with the G-Flex. I've got a pretty good fit on the joints but I don't plan on repeating this operation...EVER! Just one question...what is best for cleaning up the epoxy squeeze so these joints are pretty? By the way, I'll post a couple of before and afters when Its done.
Look forward to the pictures and reading your opinions of the results...G-Flex looks like it will work well enough in your application and much better than any Polyvinyl-acetate adhesive ever could...Good Luck!!!
homestd likes this.
35015 is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome