Are drawbore pins unecessary in vertical joinery? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 Old 01-20-2015, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1
View Planeandsimple's Photo Album My Photos
Are drawbore pins unecessary in vertical joinery?

It's fairly common to use mortise and tenon joints to join the legs of a workbench to its feet and arms (top bearers). I see a number of people putting in drawbore pins to secure these vertical joints. Now don't get me wrong - a drawbore joint is incredibly strong, and doesn't need glue, and if you use the right accent wood for your pins it can look really good, but apart from aesthetics, would drawbore pins really add much to a vertical mortise and tenon joint in a woodworking bench?

To clarify, I'm talking about double tenons here, and let's say through tenons. These puppies aren't going to be moving around given the weight of the top of the bench on the arms, legs and feet. I doubt that either vibration or wracking is going to be a problem sans pins, so are they not necessary? I guess I mean with or without glue, too. I'd probably glue the joint, if there were no good reason not to.

Also, I'm not asking about horizontal joints - without gravity helping out I think drawbore pins would definitely be helpful to keep a horizontal joint together.

What do you think? Ever had an issue with a vertical mortise and tenon joint and add pins to solve the problem?
Planeandsimple is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 01-20-2015, 09:45 PM
Wood Snob
 
Al B Thayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,963
View Al B Thayer's Photo Album My Photos
I have a method I like for pinning tenons. I take a square peg and round it all but the last part of the peg which I leave square. Then when I hammer it home the square peg makes the round hole a little square and the round hole makes the square peg a little round. This insures that if the wood peg shrinks a little it still stays put.

I use glue but not a lot. I'm not a big squeeze out fan on tenons.

Al


Al B Thayer is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 01-20-2015, 09:49 PM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,926
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
I can't see there being too much of an issue without the pins unless you tried to lift the top, but at the same time, it can't hurt

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 Old 01-21-2015, 07:26 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 12,343
View GeorgeC's Photo Album My Photos
In your specific case the pins really add nothing. Pins are normally used to hold items together, not for strength. Of course as noted above by epicfail48 they really come in handy if you want to move something.

George
GeorgeC is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 01-21-2015, 08:48 AM
Wood Snob
 
Al B Thayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,963
View Al B Thayer's Photo Album My Photos
I have a set of three Shaker style tables I built from Thos. Moser plans. They all use mortise and tenon joints on the legs to the skirt When the glue lets go or weakens somewhere down the road the pinned joints will hold the legs in place far longer than if they weren't there. The tables are now over 30 years old and still grace the living room in my southern sub tropic home. Where moisture content of the wood takes highs and lows every year.

Al


Al B Thayer is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 01-21-2015, 05:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Woodenhorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 256
View Woodenhorse's Photo Album My Photos
Pinned tenons would serve their purpose if you wanted to use hide glue where it may be in a moist/humid environment or if you wanted to skip using glue. Type II or Type III glues do not benefit from being pinned unless the joint is subjected to very high pulling/racking stress. Aesthetically it is very pleasing and I use pins for that reason alone. My bench utilizes through tenons and without pins everything is still quite sturdy after two years of continuous use. That's my primary hand-tool bench where I pound, saw, plane etc. My previous bench was built with screws and glue and lasted for over 20 years without anything coming loose.

Those who say it cannot be done should stay out of the way of the people doing it.
Woodenhorse is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 01-21-2015, 06:57 PM
Wood Snob
 
Al B Thayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,963
View Al B Thayer's Photo Album My Photos
Right Horse. But some day the glue will start to break down and the pins will more than double the life due to less chance of movement. It's something another generation will benefit from and with my stamp on the furniture they will say, That Al really wanted these to last.

I like the through tenon too and many times wedge them.Name:  ImageUploadedByWood Working Talk1421884619.340895.jpg
Views: 513
Size:  26.5 KB

Al


Al B Thayer is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 01-21-2015, 09:21 PM
Tool Fanactic
 
WarnerConstInc.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Auburn, In
Posts: 1,899
View WarnerConstInc.'s Photo Album My Photos
I just like traditional joinery.
WarnerConstInc. is offline  
post #9 of 10 Old 01-21-2015, 09:28 PM
Wood Snob
 
Al B Thayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,963
View Al B Thayer's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc. View Post
I just like traditional joinery.
+1

Al


Al B Thayer is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 01-22-2015, 11:46 AM
Senior Member
 
Woodenhorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 256
View Woodenhorse's Photo Album My Photos
I might add too that if my bench was in the garage or an outdoor shop then I would have pinned or wedged the tenons. In my basement where the environment is controlled there is far less stress placed on the joints. I'll check back in 20 years and let you know how it worked (or didn't).

Those who say it cannot be done should stay out of the way of the people doing it.
Woodenhorse is offline  
Reply

Tags
drawbore pins, mortise and tenon, vertical joinery

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Making my own dowel pins? Toller Joinery 4 12-24-2013 06:50 PM
Bowling Pins Tyler96 Woodturning 3 07-01-2013 08:24 AM
Bowling Pins RetiredLE Woodturning 24 02-10-2011 11:37 AM
Pins b00kemdano Woodturning 4 12-03-2010 08:56 AM
Starter pins? Jason W General Woodworking Discussion 5 02-08-2009 11:26 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome