Door warping - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 Old 03-27-2012, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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Door warping

I am in the middle of a build. It is a changing table and it can be found in the 'project showcase" under "changing table build". Anyway: I just joined some ash boards to make up my cabinet door for the front of the changing table. There is a total of 3 - 7" x 14" and a last board being about 3" x 14" all stacked to make a total door size of 24" x 14". Anyway, I joined the boards with #20 biscuits with Titebond III. After the glue set up - about 30 hours. I unclamped and started sanding down the door. I then routed the edges to ready it for stain. Today I went out into the shed and noticed the door had warped significantly.

As I am new to woodworking - it was about 20F overnight and 40F today and I was thinking it may be temperature related? The shed is not condtioned. Is the warping entirely due to the cold?

What can I do to help it out? Or am I screwed? Can the door be saved.
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post #2 of 9 Old 03-27-2012, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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And just for hoots:

I used plenty of clamps during glue-up with cauls and the door was flat and straight for at least 24 hours after sanding down.
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post #3 of 9 Old 03-27-2012, 09:40 PM
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screwed? probably...

You are really fighting the temperature conditions. The glue wants to be over 70 degrees for best adhesion. The wood may not have been totally dry? You don't need biscuits for a glue line joint if your edges are square and straight...which they should be in the first place. Ash is not always predictable if the grain is flat sawn as it will cup.
Just my opinion, and maybe someone else can save it for you, but I would saw it down the glue lines, bring in inside for a day or so and then reglue it. bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 03-27-2012 at 11:12 PM.
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post #4 of 9 Old 03-27-2012, 11:06 PM
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Temperature has little affect on wood warping. Changes in moisture content related to the humidity changes are culprit.
Temperature can be important for glue up. You can go to the titebond site to get the temp limits of each glue.
It will take more than a few days to be sure the wood is stable. If the panel is too curved to use the plan of cutting it apart and getting it to. The moisture content of its final place before glue up. Outside shops have serious limitations f they do not have the same humidity as the final location of the project.
You could glue it up then bring it into the house to set up. Wide panels are ideally fixed in their frame or have breadboards or some mechanical limit of movement.
You don't need biscuits for the glue up they add little and have the risk of showing thru when you finish sanding if you don't leave them to dry for long enough.
Small clamps loosely but snug on the ends of each glue joint will minimise any creep.
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post #5 of 9 Old 03-27-2012, 11:22 PM
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Your warping was probably due to humidity rather than the temperature. If you laid the panels on a flat surface where air couldn't get to both sides it may be the moisture content got higher on one side of the board than the other. You might wipe the cup side of the panels with a damp cloth and lay them on some dowel rods to see if they flatten overnight. Of course after wiping with water you will have to resand the panels because the water will raise the grain. It just takes a little finish sanding. If it works be sure when you stain them you stain both sides in a close timeframe or the stain will cause it to warp again.
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post #6 of 9 Old 03-28-2012, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys.. Now would it be a waste of time to attempt to get the bow out and put it in the climate it will stay in or will the bow just come right back? I'm really happy with the door and want to do all I can to save it.. I wiped the concave side with a damp cloth and leaned up against the wall. Will see if that helps
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post #7 of 9 Old 03-28-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midlandbob View Post
Temperature has little affect on wood warping. Changes in moisture content related to the humidity changes are culprit.
Temperature can be important for glue up. You can go to the titebond site to get the temp limits of each glue.
It will take more than a few days to be sure the wood is stable. If the panel is too curved to use the plan of cutting it apart and getting it to. The moisture content of its final place before glue up. Outside shops have serious limitations f they do not have the same humidity as the final location of the project.
You could glue it up then bring it into the house to set up. Wide panels are ideally fixed in their frame or have breadboards or some mechanical limit of movement.
You don't need biscuits for the glue up they add little and have the risk of showing thru when you finish sanding if you don't leave them to dry for long enough.
Small clamps loosely but snug on the ends of each glue joint will minimise any creep.
+1. You didn't need the biscuits. It's likely that your glue up procedure may have looked absolutely flat. But, the mating edges could have been slightly angled, or, that the pressure of the clamps were not exactly straight across the boards...even though you had used cauls. Or, that the pressure was too great, causing compression of wood fibers...that when unclamped and allowed to do their thing allowed the door to warp.

Allow the dors to normalize for a day or two and see if they will flatten out. You may want to counterweight its deflection. Set the door on longwise supports with the curve up.






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post #8 of 9 Old 03-29-2012, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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Well gents - thanks for the input. Ever since the door bowed I brought it inside to see if it'd stabilize and return to normal condition. It didn't.

So yesterday I stopped home for lunch, took a damp cloth and wiped it on the concave side. I then leaned it up against the wall so the air could get to both sides. When I came home 4 hours later the door was nearly 100% back to shape. I took a damp cloth to it again and by morning it was back to normal. I have been keeping a close eye on it today and it hasn't bowed back since. So - I will keep a good eye on it for a bit. Although I am just about ready for finish I am going to wait til we get some warmer weather to finish my project. That should be another several days so I will continue to monitor it and see if it seems as though it stabilizes.
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post #9 of 9 Old 04-09-2012, 11:42 AM
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First, Titebond III should not be used if the temperature is below 47 degrees.

Second, how did you store the glued up panel overnight? Did you store it in a manner that allowed air to freely flow to both sides? If it was stored on another flat surface, you will have promoted unequal moisture content on the two surfaces.

You may be able to salvage the panel by taking it inside and stacking it above a flat surface by 2" and putting a row of stickers on top that are then weighted. Give it at least 24 hours.

In summary, When gluing, do not do the job if the temperature is below 55-60 degrees. Warm up the boards and adhesive and move it inside as soon as the clamps are installed. Or, buy yourself a cheep electric blanket and cover the glue up while the glue dries.

Howie..........
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