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post #21 of 35 Old 09-07-2013, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Next up would be sidestepping the cutting,somewhat.....with the use of grinding equipment.The "grinding" here is usually called sanding.......In anycase we're grinding the mitre,achieving precision angles not possible in any cutting opperation.I'll spare the details because it's one of those things that unless you've actually done it(grinding into the .001's)...you simply won't believe it.Not refering to "sanding" the face here.

..........

Just sayin,you're going to have to step up your tooling a little.If you want precision results,while entirely possible on "hillbilly" tools....it is most deffinately easier with better,more refined equipment.The very best of luck.[/QUOTE]



Hmmm. Grinding sounds intriguing. I'm not afraid of learning about new things. Looks like I'm about to do some research! And yes, I do have a few hillbilly tools. :) I'm replacing them slowly but surely...
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post #22 of 35 Old 09-07-2013, 02:27 PM
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Het BW....

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Originally Posted by BWSmith View Post

Next up would be sidestepping the cutting,somewhat.....with the use of grinding equipment.The "grinding" here is usually called sanding.......In any case we're grinding the mitre, achieving precision angles not possible in any cutting operation. I'll spare the details .....


BW, I know you well enough to know what you're talkin' 'bout, but the folks out here/there in WWT have no clue when you refer to "grinding" on wood.. We all sand over here, and to throw a different term at it just might add some confusion. I know you sand/grind composites, laminates and other different materials to close tolerances required in "machining" operations. Is that the reason... a closer tolerance, you call it grinding?
Everything I grind on shoots out sparks....just sayin'
If I used a grinding wheel on wood, I'd just gum it up.
Sand wood, you get dust. Grind metal, you get sparks.
Call it what you choose, but some of us are easily confused....

I have one of those old imbedded grit sanding discs for my table saw. I imagine if I used a properly set miter guage, I could get a decent angle on a piece of wood. However, when I sand an endgrain, the wood burns and the pores fill up and get hot and that won't give a good glue bond. I get the same results with sanding discs, unless it's a real coarse grit.

Sawing, as you suggest, with a stiffer, smaller blade may give much better results because the blade plate can't flex as much especially when just shavin' off a tad on the end to get it right on. That works for me. Sanding, not so much.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-07-2013 at 02:59 PM.
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post #23 of 35 Old 09-07-2013, 08:48 PM
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I too want an explanation of the "grinding" process that is recommended. I could care less on semantics and what you call something, but I want to know your procedures if you are able to work to tolerances of 0.001! Fill us in please
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post #24 of 35 Old 09-08-2013, 05:43 AM
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I'm not much of a writer.....and could "show" you how to do this in under 30 seconds.Not much of a techie either...as I still don't even have a cell phone.

Did you know that,of the original 7 "machine tools"(now reduced to 5) that one was a planer?These are metal tools.So,you can plane a pce of steel?Does that make sense to a WW'er?Probably not,but it is still a bonafied approach to straightening a lathe bed,even in this day and age.

Do you know that a WW'ing handplane has a fixed blade and an electric planer has a head that rotates?Yes you do.....but what about those veneer planes that slice veneers off....what are they called?Super surfacers?

Do you know that you can plane wood with a widebelt sander?

It's semantics.The one thing that sort of irritates me is the disconnect between WW'ers and metal work.I just don't understand it?And this is a two way street.....metal workers looking at WW'ing as some sort of Fred Flintstone operation?Precision is just that.........the medium is what it is.I honestly can say that there isn't two nickles worth of difference machining wood and machining metals as long as you follow some basic protocol.

Heck,chuck up a pce of aluminum in the turning center and do a .100" D.O.C.(depth of cut)at an aggressive feedrate and then measure it's OD........now let it cool down and see what it is?Try welding a Nascar chassis and then tell me something about metal's innate stability vs wood.It's all the same stuff....just a different day(or medium).In some machining opperations,wood is easier......the EXACT same thing can be said about metal.

Ask a weldor about grinding steel and what comes into his thought process?Wonder if he's considering centerless grinding round stock(which you can do with wood BTW)?Wonder if he's ever run a surface grinder or a Blanchard?No,he's thinking about grinding a weld joint,or prepping a pce of metal.

So,ask a WW'er about "sanding" wood....what comes into the thought process?For me,it's ALL ABOUT historic houses/buildings and early American tradition of throwing sand on the floor and lets walk on it for awhile.But thats an awful long way from what most WW'ers think of,wouldn't you say?For most,"sanding" is some awful part of the finishing process that they've come to hate......it's boring,slow,and generally causes about as many problems as it 'sposed to fix.

Therefore,when using abrasive grinding techniques to VASTLY speed up certain machining operations(we are a working professional WW shop,and have been for 40 years)...and subsequently,RUNNING to the front of the precision bus....calling it "sanding" is a bit of a misnomer.At least in my pea brain.

Those who say it cannot be done shouldn't interrupt the people doing it.
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post #25 of 35 Old 09-08-2013, 06:07 AM Thread Starter
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Very interesting. I had never thought of it much. Thanks for the lesson
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post #26 of 35 Old 09-08-2013, 07:12 AM
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You are quite welcome.

One thing you can do........and this right here is what separates the do-ers from the analisys to paralisys types.......and why certain "hand done" techniques defy explanation WRT accuracy/precision...

If there's anyway you can have a shooting board or "slave" pce,aka cover's.....you'll be way ahead on you saw.So,put a backer pce of stock not only under your frame pce,but on top as well.If you can encapsulate your stock.....while its being cut......these covers really go a long way twds stabilizing the blade.The best part of just about any cut is somewhere in the middle of that cut.

At the start of a cut,we see a little vibration......at the end or back of cut theres that ugly tearout.But right there in the middle,heck...looks pretty good.

Those who say it cannot be done shouldn't interrupt the people doing it.
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post #27 of 35 Old 09-08-2013, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Ooh...I see where you are going with that. I'll try it this afternoon
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post #28 of 35 Old 09-08-2013, 10:38 AM
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Ooh...I see where you are going with that. I'll try it this afternoon
Another tip for using a compound miter saw, or a sliding compound saw, is to allow the blade to reach speed. Then with minimal effort, lower the blade into the stock and allow a smooth downcut. While the blade is down, allow it to stop, and then remove moulding.

When pulling down, it's easy to exert side loads to the saw which can have some effect on it's course of action. If you are cutting both 45 members to a corner, and swinging the table/saw from the cut on one side to the cut on the other, you may be depending on the detent stops. If there is a slight differential, that will show up in the final fit.

You could make a jig for a CMS/RAS/TS/sled, that holds stock at a 45.






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post #29 of 35 Old 09-29-2013, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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I made a sled for my table saw and made my first two cuts and then my lights flickered and the table stopped.

Needless to say I have a new 10" table saw and I will use it for the first time tonight. So much for that sled! I can salvage it, but I didn't even really get to use it with the last table.
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post #30 of 35 Old 09-29-2013, 05:30 PM
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Oooopps

You don't ever want to have the tablesaw and the lights on the same circuit.
Reason no. 1 if the power goes out from natural causes or a power outage, the lights and the saw stop and you're in the dark...pretty much, not safe.
Reason no. 2 your saw may trip the breaker and then the saw and the lights go out because of an overload. The saw needs very bit of power it can get on a 15 amp circuit and that's why 20 amps is the preferred size. Lighting circuits are 15 AMPs and when you add the power requirements (wattage) of both the lights and the saw and you are underpowered. A dedicated 15 AMP circuit is better than a combined lighting circuit.

Did the sled "jam" on the first cuts? You should raise the blade slowly as you push the sled along for the first cut into the base. Then if shouldn't bind on the blade, but it may be binding in the miter slots... further investigation is needed.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-29-2013 at 06:12 PM.
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post #31 of 35 Old 09-29-2013, 05:38 PM
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I made a sled for my table saw and made my first two cuts and then my lights flickered and the table stopped.

Needless to say I have a new 10" table saw and I will use it for the first time tonight. So much for that sled! I can salvage it, but I didn't even really get to use it with the last table.
What happened?






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post #32 of 35 Old 09-29-2013, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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I don't know what happened. Nothing electrical. I smelled a smell that was unfamiliar, looking back. Something with the motor, perhaps. I took the table apart to get to the motor and took out the "brushes" (?). A friend of a friend said they looked fine. Idk. Dad was in town and surprised me with a new one. If I get this fixed, or even if I don't, it'll probably just end up on craigslist.

I needed a quick fix and this was the quickest there was. I hate to replace if a repair is possible.
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post #33 of 35 Old 09-29-2013, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Did the sled "jam" on the first cuts? You should raise the blade slowly as you push the sled along for the first cut into the base. Then if shouldn't bind on the blade, but it may be binding in the miter slots... further investigation is needed.
No jamming or dragging. Cuts were smooth and a nice, perfect 45 degree cut. Just lost juice after the last cut. Weird.
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post #34 of 35 Old 09-29-2013, 07:21 PM
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Is anything else on that circuit? I had a second story light that kept going out whenever I turned on the vacuum cleaner. It turned out that light, the outlet I was using, and the big freezer in the basement were on the same circuit.... it could be someone tried to make microwave popcorn while you were making that third cut or something.
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post #35 of 35 Old 09-29-2013, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Only one overhead fluorescent light. Nothing else was even plugged in. I have run that saw hundreds of times before in the same setup
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